my first Lisa

[Schafeman]

When I had to finally fix my keyboard, it was a waterfall effect.  Only a few keys were broken, and after I took off the PCB and started replacing those pads, then more degraded to the point where the keys stopped working.  Now I replaced all of the foam pads with a complete set that DOESN'T work at all.  So I literally have no keyboard now.. be careful

 

[MarNo84]

When I had to finally fix my keyboard, it was a waterfall effect.  Only a few keys were broken, and after I took off the PCB and started replacing those pads, then more degraded to the point where the keys stopped working.  Now I replaced all of the foam pads with a complete set that DOESN'T work at all.  So I literally have no keyboard now.. be careful

Yep..that's a typical thing with these Pads..nearly the same effect with Commodore SX64 Keyboards never try to fix just one single key..fix them all in one job. Well, I better don't open my keyboard until the first key stops working [8D]

 

[stepleton]

Yep..that's a typical thing with these Pads..nearly the same effect with Commodore SX64 Keyboards never try to fix just one single key..fix them all in one job. Well, I better don't open my keyboard until the first key stops working [8D]

When you do open your keyboard, as you will have to do eventually (the pads will all degrade someday), please use extreme care when disassembling the caps lock key. The tiny spring and pin that are part of the key locking mechanism can easily fall out, and if they do, since they are extremely small, they can be very difficult to find on a work surface (or the floor!).

In fact... during my own key pad replacement, I had the misfortune of having the spring in the caps lock mechanism shoot that little pin right into my eye! No harm done, luckily, and even more fortunately my wife and I managed to find the pin (which bounced off my eye) and spring rolling around on the floor.

As dramatic as the whole procedure was for me, I wouldn't let this risk stop you from replacing your key pads---if you are aware of the issue and treat the caps lock key with care, you probably won't have a problem.

 

[falen5]

Thats a great bit of info stepleton as I have that repair ahead of me in the near future. First timer!!

I already opened the keyboard as far as removing the main pcb to have a look at the pads, took one look and quickly put it back together

At what part of the repair are you referring to , when I actually take the caps lock key apart?

I thought it was just a case of peeling off the old pads and sticking on new ones ?

Really appreciate the heads up

 

[stepleton]

Thats a great bit of info stepleton as I have that repair ahead of me in the near future. First timer!!

I already opened the keyboard as far as removing the main pcb to have a look at the pads, took one look and quickly put it back together

At what part of the repair are you referring to , when I actually take the caps lock key apart?

I thought it was just a case of peeling off the old pads and sticking on new ones ?

Really appreciate the heads up

You know, that's actually an excellent question. Now that you mention it, I don't really remember why I had such an experience with the caps lock key---it was a few years ago that I did my pad replacement, and I can't remember why it was necessary to do anything besides dig the old pads out and clip the new ones in place. Why did I even need to mess with that mechanism in the first place?

To try and refresh my memory, I did a little search and found this page with lots of pictures of the inside of the keyboard. There isn't a good picture of the caps lock key mechanism, but if you search for the string "bottom key switch profile", the image just above it shows the bottom of the keyswitches, with the caps lock key barely visible all the way to the right. Here is a direct link to the image itself...

You can see a white plastic frame surrounding the bottom of the keyswitch, and if I remember correctly, this is a molded piece of plastic that holds the whole locking mechanism in place (and may even incorporate the shaped channel that the pin I mentioned slides around in). My advice is to treat this plastic piece with caution! Try not to let it move, because (if I remember correctly now) if it slips off, the spring and pin will be exposed.

Please take this all with a grain of salt---it comes from some old memories, obviously---but one thing is for sure: when replacing your keyboard pads, treat the caps lock key with care!

 

[falen5]

Thanks so much stepleton

More great info and pictures there. Will most definitely be paying special attention to the caps lock.

There is nothing worse , taking something apart, and that sudden 'ping' as you hear something flying past your head, followed by the ding, ding ding as it hits the floor, never to be seen again.

Its happened to u all. Spending ages , on the floor with a magnafying glass, trying to find a tiny spring or screw or washer.

Im still waiting on the eprom programmer, it is due. With some luck i will get the machine to power up.

Still no hard drive for it, so If I can get the machine working the keyboard will be next.

I plan on making a video of replacing the pads as i cant find one online.

Will be so funny if I have the camera rolling and after your advice the caps lock spring takes off like a scud missile, ill just have to post it.

really appreciate the help and advice folks.

 

[falen5]

My new eprom programmer finally arrived today

I tested the 3 roms on the Lisa

The 1 on the IO board and the 2 on the cpu board

all 3 (as far as I can tell) are ok.

What I did for each rom was as follows.

0: downloaded .bin files for all 3 roms.The correct images according to the stickers that i found in the machine. 341-0175 Rev H LO, 341-0176 Rev H Hi, and 341-0281 Rev D

1: Read a rom. Had a look at the Chksum reading

2: Opened the bin file I downloaded for the same chip - The Chksum was the exact same.  For all 3 roms

3: saved the first reading of each rom

4: wrote the downloaded image for each rom to each rom

Everything seems to have worked 

Result - no change in any way. Machine is still lifeless.

When i power on the machine I get no beep. The display comes on but is is just a grey square the size of the screen.

When i hit the power button a second time nothing happens.

The safety switches for the front panel and the rear cover do work. I hold them in place with a cotton bud, power it up, and if i pull out either cotton bud the machine instantly shuts down.

if the roms are ok (i think they are anyway) what can i look at next. Is the sy6504A a cpu to run the io board?.

Might just bypass the back door switch, power up the machine for a while and see if any of the chips get hot

Have no Idea where to go from here folks

 

[Johnnya101]

This is your issue!!!

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/lisalist/grey$20screen%7Csort:relevance/lisalist/dCeH95U8xSg/nFIp8pPi13gJ

Never solved

Could maybe be a memory card and dirty contacts.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/lisalist/grey$20screen%7Csort:relevance/lisalist/B5XLGbSzgKY/0k6xKadJVm0J

Video problem on the I/O?

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/lisalist/gray$20screen%7Csort:relevance/lisalist/QmmPfAj64uQ/AUrMxumt0NAJ

 

[falen5]

Success !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Johnnya101 , ........ you are a legend. That first link you posted said C8 next to the 68000 leaks. I took it off , measured it and it was way off. Instead of 2.2uf it is reading 5.8 uf ( i think)

Quickly replaced it , just to see and BANG!!!!!!!!!!!!!           My Lisa has finally come to life.

I have looked and looked for help with this. Read 2 other 'Lisa fix' tutorials on google groups. But they were all machines that were booting. Mine was totally dead. That link was the first I have read with the exact same problem as mine. C8.

Now everything works. It beeps. It boots and when I hit the power button again it shuts down

Have tried it with the second memory card and they all work. It is now booting with all 4 cards installed.

Connected a mouse from a 128k and that works too.

Im finally at the desktop where it is looking for something to boot from.

I have to try a floppy.

Im too happy to even bother right now.  Just going to look at it for a while!!!!

Ive been at this for 2 months.

Time to do the keyboard pads.

Can a Lisa boot from a floppy, or series of floppies. Think I read somewhere it wont boot without a hard drive.

johnnya101  big thanks from Ireland man.

 

[Themk]

All of these electrolytic capacitors have finite lifespans. The ones from the 80s are now at the point where they are beginning to fail. All of the capacitors will need replacing at some point.

 

[BadGoldEagle]

Congrats!

The Lisa can boot into MacWorks from a floppy (actually it needs 2 floppies IIRC)

LisaOS requires a working HD. You can boot the installer but you'll never get to the desktop...

 

[Johnnya101]

Yay! Can't believe nobody posted those earlier... so now we know for everyone who gets this issue, it's probably caps.

Enjoy your Lisa!

 

[falen5]

I have collected about fifty  68k macs. I have 128k's, 512's, a bucket load of SE's and plus's and have never had to replace any of the caps on their motherboards. As for the classic's and se/30's Ive had to recap all of them.

I should of removed a few to test them. I asked if the Lisa suffers from cap leaks but heard nothing.

Going to order up a proper replacement, think I will replace the lot of them. The IO board has loads of caps.

But for now its working great. It was driving me crazy because the boards, along with the entire machine are in  amazing condition.

Will make some boot floppies tonight. Heres a link for the floppys

 http://www.classic-computers.org.nz/blog/2011-12-29-disk-from-images-lisa.htm

keyboard to do and then finding a hard drive replacement

all good fun

thanks again johnny

 

[Johnnya101]

You're welcome. Never really heard of a Lisa having bad caps either, but everything is failing now. Apple IIs are the things that were around that time frame and don't usually need cap replacements.

 

[falen5]

One of my apple II e's was dead. Turned out that 3 of the small caps right next to the power connector were dead. swapped them out and she fired up.

Your right johnny , all the old machines are starting to fail now. I got my hands on a TAM last year ( or the year before) god dam battery leaked. Nobody heard of a TAM having battery leak either. I manage to get the motherboard partially working but not completely.

From here on all caps are suspicious !!!

Just tried making the floppies to boot the Lisa. Got the 2 images onto my color classic. Formatted 2 DD disks to 400k with disk charmer, wrote the images and tried them. No joy.

Ill have to dig out the old external floppy for a 128K and write the images with that.

I wonder if there are any games that run on a lisa. Would love to find a big ass text adventure and wander away for a few days

 

[jsarchibald]

I've had one of those Rayovac 4.5V batteries leak onto a 5500 board, it was toast.  The same battery is found in the TAM, so if you have one installed, remove it ASAP!

 

[MarNo84]

Hey there and I'm happy for yourvgreat success on that beautiful old lady

Bad caps and leaking time bombs (yes they are!) Always the same with our beloved treasures :-/

That was the first thing/routine done as I received my LISA (and several other computers) - an optical check for any leakage or any bursting caps. Second, a good bath in warm water with citrus accid (not to long or your gold contacts/surface will vanish - partially mine did but still works - after all a warm water bath with my favourite bubble bathing soap and at the end a quick flush with clear water or isoprop to clean every single left dirt or soap xD ahh, of course some days to dry everything - dont just use a hairdryer

Marcus

 

[falen5]

Managed to boot the lisa to a desktop with floppies

It is some kind of macintosh emulator

2  floppies. First boots the lisa to a white screen then gives the flashing disc icon. This is the macintosh emulator

second floppy gets me to a desktop

Looks just like a mac!!

Had lots of trouble getting the floppy drive to read the first floppy. Stripped the drive  AGAIN to clean everything and the head

Discovered it would read the first floppy if i placed a small bit of pressure on the floppy with my finger ( first picture)

After that the drive would read the second floppy no problem. No finger required!

Cant understand why it had trouble reading the first floppy. I made a second 'first floppy' with a new DD disc, same result.

Im guessing the first read of the first floppy is pure Lisa format reading. The emulator loads and then it is reading the second floppy

in the macintosh format

Im wondering if it is the floppies themselvs. Im using new(ish) DD floppies. Perhaps I need old 400k floppies. Is there such a thing?

having a ball of a time with this machine. I rekon ill have crysis running on it next week

 

[Johnnya101]

Its an XL! 

Looks like the screen mod is not installed... Which is odd...

Why? Well looking at those disk icons and everything else, it looks stretched.

I believe by writing Lisa Roms you can fix that? Make it back into a Lisa if you want to. Schaffeman (Probably botched the name, sorry!) Did this and will know more!

 

[falen5]

Hey Johnnya101

I dont think I actually wrote to the roms. I read from them and checked the ChkSum against the downloaded files. I was messing about with the programmer today and a rom for an apple ii . When I wrote to that rom I got a different screen with the button 'program'. 

When I got to the desktop is was stretched allright. I know very little about the Lisa so I didnt adjust anything. I know where the screen adjusters are but will just leave them for now. What is the screen mod, something about square pixels ? , i dont understand

I have to get a hard drive to see this thing working as it was ment to work. Profile drives are pretty rare things in europe. i saw one last year in germany on ebay and it was cheap but figured I would never have a lisa so didnt bother with it. Dang!

I have 3.5 inch external floppy drives for 128K macs. Will they plug into the back of this Lisa?. I know they are the same drives inside as I have striped all of those as well.

Johnnya what do I have loaded on the lisa in these pictures. I think it is macintosh system 1. Is that what it is