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Whats the problem with this Lisa widget drive?
- Thread starter BEU
- Start date
I have tested the Darlingtons and unit 1,3 and 4 are working and switching power to a LED. Pin 8 ( unit2) is not connected. So the ULN274 is bad. Now Im waiting for new Q3 and U1. Interesting to see whats happening then, if it will start. As I understand its difficult / impossible to keep the widget drives alive for more than 40 years.
stepleton
Well-known member
Excellent, thank you for testing. It's a good thing you have a new one on the way.
Once you have it installed, it would probably be a good idea to let the Widget run for a while to loosen up the spindle bearing and get it used to turning again.
If the spindle doesn't turn when you give the Widget power, then don't leave it on for more than a second or two. Turn the power off, let it rest for a little bit (making sure that U1 cools down, if it got hot), then try again while giving the motor a little push in the right direction. Hopefully you can start it turning, and then it can exercise itself for a while.
Keep an eye on the Widget while it's spinning. You may find that it varies in speed at first while it redistributes old lubricant about the spindle bearing (or at least that's my theory). If it really seems to be struggling, shut it down. Otherwise, let it continue, and hopefully its ability to keep speed will stabilise over time. Keep an ear out for other strange mechanical sounds, like any contact between the heads and the disk surface. If that happens (and it will be loud and obvious if it does), your disk will already be ruined, but at least you can pull the plug and mourn in silence.
If it refuses to spin at all, then we'll have to do more troubleshooting
I don't think anybody has a Widget that's over 40 years old yet, so nobody knows. Most of them are about this age, though.
It's probably pretty hard to keep most hard drives alive for decades: people seem to accept that these things were not made with this kind of lifespan in mind. The Widget in particular was the first hard drive built by a company that had never made hard drives before, and they made a few unusual design choices and (arguably) some rookie mistakes. This may make it more fragile and liable to break.
However, if more people try to fix Widgets, if they do it in a scientific way, and if they share what they learn, then we may build enough of a knowledge base that Widgets become among the easier drives to fix. You never know!
Once you have it installed, it would probably be a good idea to let the Widget run for a while to loosen up the spindle bearing and get it used to turning again.
If the spindle doesn't turn when you give the Widget power, then don't leave it on for more than a second or two. Turn the power off, let it rest for a little bit (making sure that U1 cools down, if it got hot), then try again while giving the motor a little push in the right direction. Hopefully you can start it turning, and then it can exercise itself for a while.
Keep an eye on the Widget while it's spinning. You may find that it varies in speed at first while it redistributes old lubricant about the spindle bearing (or at least that's my theory). If it really seems to be struggling, shut it down. Otherwise, let it continue, and hopefully its ability to keep speed will stabilise over time. Keep an ear out for other strange mechanical sounds, like any contact between the heads and the disk surface. If that happens (and it will be loud and obvious if it does), your disk will already be ruined, but at least you can pull the plug and mourn in silence.
If it refuses to spin at all, then we'll have to do more troubleshooting
I don't think anybody has a Widget that's over 40 years old yet, so nobody knows. Most of them are about this age, though.
It's probably pretty hard to keep most hard drives alive for decades: people seem to accept that these things were not made with this kind of lifespan in mind. The Widget in particular was the first hard drive built by a company that had never made hard drives before, and they made a few unusual design choices and (arguably) some rookie mistakes. This may make it more fragile and liable to break.
However, if more people try to fix Widgets, if they do it in a scientific way, and if they share what they learn, then we may build enough of a knowledge base that Widgets become among the easier drives to fix. You never know!
Hello stepleton and all others in this excellent forum.
Now I have got the spare parts and replaced the Q3 (BD507) and U1 (ULN2074)
I have placed a thermometer on Q3 to measure the temperatur. Q3 was burned the last time I tested the widget.
Watch the video below. the text Arkiv, Redigera, Innehåll, Special, at the top is burned in the CRT .
Now I have got the spare parts and replaced the Q3 (BD507) and U1 (ULN2074)
I have placed a thermometer on Q3 to measure the temperatur. Q3 was burned the last time I tested the widget.
Watch the video below. the text Arkiv, Redigera, Innehåll, Special, at the top is burned in the CRT .
stepleton
Well-known member
Is that Office System 3.1B booting from your Widget? If so, wow, congratulations! Well done --- repairing a Widget is an accomplishment!
I've never measured the temperature of any of the Widget components before, but assuming the indications are in degrees C, it doesn't seem too bad.
The bearing does sound pretty terrible, but perhaps with some exercise it may start to run more smoothly, and perhaps even begin rotating on its own.
My Lisa 2/10 also has a MacOS menu bar burned into the CRT --- not quite as clearly as yours, but very noticeable. The fact that yours is burned-in where it is suggests that a previous Lisa owner did the "quick and easy" DIY square-pixel mod: simply adjust the vertical height potentiometer on the video board until the video image is "squished" vertically, making the pixels less tall.
I've never measured the temperature of any of the Widget components before, but assuming the indications are in degrees C, it doesn't seem too bad.
The bearing does sound pretty terrible, but perhaps with some exercise it may start to run more smoothly, and perhaps even begin rotating on its own.
My Lisa 2/10 also has a MacOS menu bar burned into the CRT --- not quite as clearly as yours, but very noticeable. The fact that yours is burned-in where it is suggests that a previous Lisa owner did the "quick and easy" DIY square-pixel mod: simply adjust the vertical height potentiometer on the video board until the video image is "squished" vertically, making the pixels less tall.
I have started it now 3-4 times and the HD start to spin without any help. You were right (of course) stepleton. Its booting fine. The HD is maybe less noisy but sometimes it start to scream, se video below. Its not related to movement of the disk arm. With some video adjustments the picture is good. I have measured rotation with a digital laser tachometer. Its spinning 3090-3095 rpm and what I have read that should be OK. The rpm is not decreasing when its screaming. Is it anything more to do or just to exercise the HD. As I understand its impossible to get any lubrication to the bearing?
superjer2000
Well-known member
This was a great thread! It should be turned into a Netflix movie!
stepleton
Well-known member
Congratulations again!
The situation you're observing with the noisy bearing is familiar to me, but I'm not so confident in my knowledge here.
All I know is limited to observations that I've encountered occasional squealing from bearings before --- usually in ProFiles, not Widgets --- and I haven't found them to affect the operation of the disk. I don't assume that it's good news, and I suspect a healthier bearing would not make such noises, but aside from causing me to grit my teeth, I've noticed no ill effects... so far.
Longer running and occasional "exercise" appears to make the spindle turn more smoothly in my experience.
I think someone with mechanical engineering experience should know better than me.
The situation you're observing with the noisy bearing is familiar to me, but I'm not so confident in my knowledge here.
All I know is limited to observations that I've encountered occasional squealing from bearings before --- usually in ProFiles, not Widgets --- and I haven't found them to affect the operation of the disk. I don't assume that it's good news, and I suspect a healthier bearing would not make such noises, but aside from causing me to grit my teeth, I've noticed no ill effects... so far.
Longer running and occasional "exercise" appears to make the spindle turn more smoothly in my experience.
I think someone with mechanical engineering experience should know better than me.
I have started this Lisa now almost everyday and let it run for half an hour. Its starting without any mechanical assistance. It running more quiet and no screaming anymore. Stepletons observation is a fact. Now its running almost "as new". No strange noise and perfect start and hardrive and floppy drive is working. I tried to set the clock and date but Lisa os 3.1 didnt believe at life after 1995.
Thank You all for contributing to this forum and a special thank to stepleton whos knowledge and enthusiasm saved this Lisa.
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