Mobius 030 + 16MB RAM

[8bitbubsy]

I have 16MB of physical RAM (4x4MB) installed on my Mobius 030, and I have some questions about Connectix Compact Virtual 3.0.2:
1) When I set application memory above 4MB, will it also use the 4MB of (slow) RAM that is installed on my Macintosh SE motherboard? I don't want that RAM to be used at all. The manual is a bit confusing, and it almost seems like it does (unless that is for the RAM disk feature only).
2) If the Macintosh SE motherboard RAM is used, doesn't that mean you need 80ns (or 70ns if 1 waitstate) RAM on there as well?
3) Why does it install a hefty swap file on my HDD when I have 16MB of physical RAM installed in the Mobius? I thought it was supposed to not use the HDD for memory access at all?

One person said that RAM performance crawled to snail pace with "application memory" set above 4MB on System 7 + Mobius 030 + Virtual 3.0.2, and that kinda suggests what I feared in 3)...

 

[Phipli]

You need to keep some RAM on the logic board because the logic board uses DMA for video and audio.

The rest of your questions, it doesn't sound like it is set up correctly I'm sorry. What you're describing is how it behaves when you aren't using the upgrade card's RAM, but just disk swap.

What settings did you select while installing?

 

[8bitbubsy]

I got a cracked version of Compact Virtual 3.0.2 from a site, ran the installer and selected Mobius SE FPD/TPD.
Running System 7.0.1 Norwegian, without the Tune-Up update.

 

[Phipli]

Does the Mobius Control Panel tell you how much Memory is detected?

 

[Phipli]

If the Macintosh SE motherboard RAM is used, doesn't that mean you need 80ns (or 70ns if 1 waitstate) RAM on there as well?

The logic board RAM is still running from the standard 8MHz bus. Only the upgrade's RAM runs fast.

 

[Phipli]

Did you set the memory jumper on the card?

 

[8bitbubsy]

Yes, I did set the memory jumper.

Mobius 030 control panel shows:
On boad: 16384 k
Logic board: 4096 k
Protected: 16318 k
Video buffers: 64 k

Sometimes on a cold boot, it shows garbage instead of numbers here, and I have to shut the machine off and back on (reset doesn't help). Sometimes the machine is even freezing (or rebooting) when the Mobius INIT extension loads on boot.

I wonder if this is because of the FPU I installed. I remember it being somewhat unstable on the Mobius INIT extension loading after that.

"About Macintosh" says (something like):
Internal memory: 4MB
Total memory: 16MB
"16MB used as RAM on Macintosh HD"

Could it be that this accelerator is not a Mobius, but a Total Systems Gemini one instead? At least the machine came with the Mobius 030 drivers on that old HDD from the previous owners, from back in the early 90s.

 

[8bitbubsy]

Removed the FPU now, and set the 2-waitstate jumper. Same symptoms...
This also happened at times when I ran 4MB on the Mobius instead of 16MB.

 

[Phipli]

Yes, I did set the memory jumper.

Mobius 030 control panel shows:
On boad: 16384 k
Logic board: 4096 k
Protected: 16318 k
Video buffers: 64 k

Sometimes on a cold boot, it shows garbage instead of numbers here, and I have to shut the machine off and back on (reset doesn't help). Sometimes the machine is even freezing (or rebooting) when the Mobius INIT extension loads on boot.

I wonder if this is because of the FPU I installed. I remember it being somewhat unstable on the Mobius INIT extension loading after that.

"About Macintosh" says (something like):
Internal memory: 4MB
Total memory: 16MB
"16MB used as RAM on Macintosh HD"

Could it be that this accelerator is not a Mobius, but a Total Systems one instead? At least the machine came with the Mobius 030 drivers on that old HDD from the previous owners, from back in the early 90s.

EDIT: Hm no, pretty sure it's a Mobius since it has the Mobius Display cicuitry and connector.

I suspect it is a Mobius card. I'm not certain that this exact card was made by Total Systems - I was talking about it with a friend, the issue is that the GemStart driver recognises it as a Gemini... and the GemStart Control Panel is on the internet, so it might just be before Mobius on the webpage with a list of drivers and people try it and it works. This has meant the internet is full of people calling it a Gemini, but... I've never seen on with a Total Systems box or sticker on the case.

It does look identical to an Applied Engineering TransWarp SE though.

The fact that the Mobius Control Panel sees the RAM is excellent news.

Did you change any settings in Virtual after installing?

I can't see the FPU directly impacting the memory. Is it a reasonably close speed grade?

My first thought is to try installing Virtual again, but selecting the Applied Engineering option.

I'd also consider cleaning the memory contacts, trying System 7.0.1 and trying the Applied Engineering driver, or GemStart.

If you keep having issues, I'll dig my identical card out and see what happens with my SE.

 

[Phipli]

I did a bit of experimenting, and Virtual works with my Total Systems card to give me 16MB of fast 32bit memory even without any accelerator software installed at all. This means that your issue is likely either physical or the Virtual software setup.

Note Virtual offers me the "RAM Disk Settings" button, because it recognises my extra RAM.

 

[8bitbubsy]

Ok, I see.

By the way, I removed Compact Virtual and all the Mobius stuff, installed the TransWarp driver. That driver reports 4MB RAM and no MMU (and ROM version 630, interestingly enough). If I install Compact Virtual with the TransWarp option on top of this, suddenly the TransWarp driver says that MMU is "AMU", and it says 16MB of physical RAM. However, I'm still back to square one, where only HDD RAM is enabled, not physical RAM.

Should I try the Total Systems Gemini 030 option in Compact Virtual now?

EDIT: Yes, I have a 68030 with an MMU in there, not one of those EC versions without.

 

[Phipli]

Should I try the Total Systems option now? Do I install the GemStart driver, then? And I assume I need to select Gemini 030 in Compact Virtual?

I'd try with the Mobius card selected in virtual first, as Virtual is the software that needs to know where in the address map the RAM is located. But see if you have more luck with GemStart.

installed the TransWarp driver. That driver reports 4MB RAM and no MMU (and ROM version 630, interestingly enough).

That's a shame.

However, I'm still back to square one, where only HDD RAM is enabled, not physical RRAM.

I'm leaning towards something not detecting right but its weird. Its like we have the wrong card selected in the Virtual Installer.

Logic check :
We know the Mobius Driver can see the 16MB (it can see it even when Virtual isn't installed right? Its not just reporting the Swap is it?)

We know that the MMU works because Virtual needs it to work at all.

We know that Virtual can't see the RAM becauseit doesn't show the RAM Disk button, but don't know why.

 

[8bitbubsy]

I was so hopeful. Compact Virtual even selected Gemini per default now under installation.
Then reboot. And.. Same problem! How frustrating!

Could it be something as stupid as Compact Virtual not being compatible with Norwegian System 7.0.1?

 

[Phipli]

View attachment 59262

I was so hopeful. Compact Virtual even selected Gemini per default now under installation.
Then reboot. And.. Same problem! How frustrating!

Ah shame. I'll see what mine does tomorrow. Mine came with a 68EC030 so I'll need ti switch out the CPU.

Could it be something as stupid as Compact Virtual not being compatible with Norwegian System 7.0.1?

Shouldn't be, I believe it only localises strings.

 

[8bitbubsy]

Logic check :
We know the Mobius Driver can see the 16MB (it can see it even when Virtual isn't installed right? Its not just reporting the Swap is it?)

Yup, Mobius driver (without Virtual) mentions 16MB of onboard RAM.
Btw, have you blocked me when it comes to PMs? I've sent a couple the last days, and I don't get a reply. Was wondering where you got your Compact Virtual from.

 

[Phipli]

Was wondering where you got your Compact Virtual from.

My copy is from Mac Garden.

 

[Realitystorm]

One person said that RAM performance crawled to snail pace with "application memory" set above 4MB on System 7 + Mobius 030 + Virtual 3.0.2, and that kinda suggests what I feared in 3)...

That would be me. Never did find time to experiment more, so looking forward to your results

 

[8bitbubsy]

My copy is from Mac Garden.

Ok so we use the exact same copy, so that's not the issue.

That would be me. Never did find time to experiment more, so looking forward to your results

Maybe you had the same problem as me, that HDD swapping was used instead of addressing the real physical RAM. This would naturally slow down RAM performance a lot.

Another person has the same problem here (accelerator card in first post looks identical to mine): https://68kmla.org/bb/index.php?threads/mac-se-accelerator-card.30753/#post-327727

Bolle also wrote:
"Found some more info on that card. Mobius did sell the exact same card as well at some point. The card does indeed not support Connectix Virtual to extend the system RAM. [...]"

 

[8bitbubsy]

Ohhh!

The problem was about french localisation of System 7.
With System 7.0.1 US all is OK, with Mobius driver and with Compact Virtual loaded.

 

[Phipli]

Ohhh!

Thats really really stupid.

Note @Bolle was also possibly not using the US version.

I probably was about to try with a non US System too.