Mac G4 Sawtooth Upgraded

[Rick Dangerous]

Couldn't get that program to install despite following the instructions.

Bob says:

"In 9 I guess you are talking about.  I never used the Apple Monitors so I never had the problem. If it was a non Apple monitor I would tell you to unhook and rehook up the display.  If the cable that attaches the displays doesn't read the cable you get limited.  Zapping the PRAM (command option p and r keys held down at startup for 3 chimes) tell the computer to look at what It is connected to like it was the first time.  If that doesn't help there is a program on the Kitchen Sink for 9 in the Video Drivers  called Super Res.  It allows forced resolutions that are not normally listed."

I'm going to try zapping the PRAM.  Should have been the first thing i tried really....lol

 

[Rick Dangerous]

Looks better with the right keyboard and mouse  

Will switch to any resoloution under the sun in OSX, just not in OS9, must be missing the drivers or something for my graphics card.  Going to use a program to force resolutions, etc.

Of course now i have a new issue...since zapping the PRAM i am getting the below error message, I can't unpack any SIT files!!  Anyone encounter this before?  I even tried reinstalling stuffit expander, and restoring the hard disk with disk utility, and i get the same message.  Always something...oh well.  Otherwise coming along nicely. 

 

[Cory5412]

must be missing the drivers or something for my graphics card. 

Possibly. What graphics card is it?

i am getting the below error message, I can't unpack any SIT files!!

Try opening Utilities -> Internet Utilities or Applications -> Internet Utilities and dragging the SIT file directly onto Stuffit Expander.

Did those same archives open fine before zapping the PRAM? That's not something you usually see change as a direct result of a PRAM zap.

If you have a really bare install of the OS (all the options were turned off, in 9+ and maybe 8.5+ it's included as part of the Internet Connectivity tools) it might also be that you need to install Stuffit Expander.

 

[EvilCapitalist]

Have you already tried rebuilding the desktop?  Strange that it shows the correct icon on the file as if it knows the correct association but then doesn't open Stuffit.

On an unrelated note, that oriental rug mousepad is a nice touch.

 

[Rick Dangerous]

It's a ATI Radeon 7500 32MB DDR VGA/ADC AGP Video Card.  I found the drivers page:

https://gona.mactar.hu/ATI_Mac/

But not sure which one would be the best fit for my 7500 AGP as none of them mention it specifically.   Anyone willing to point me in the right direction?

Dropped the SIT on Stuffit Icon and sure enough it worked; thanks guys!   It's weird because what i tried before was opening stuffit; and then selecting the file to expand, but that gave me a broken sit icon; like it didn't work properly.  

With this "Super Res" program that is supposed to allow me to force various resolutions; i still only have one option; so time to explore drivers i guess...  Trying to get 640 x 480 for games like Doom, Wolfenstein and many other older games. 



Thanks--Love my oriental rug mousepad!  

 

[Rick Dangerous]

Any thoughts?  I got 640 X 480 from this monitor with my G4 cubes standard 16MB Graphics card in OS 9.2.2 so i know its possible.

Short of trying another graphics card; what would you try? 

 

[Cory5412]

The next thing I'd try is another monitor. If you have one, a VGA display, but if not, a DVI display would at least be another data point.

I mentioned above somewhere, 64-meg Radeon graphics is really circa late 2002 or 2003 - but 9.2.2 should have the drivers for that card, because it looks like it was stock as part of one of the PowerMac G4s, and/or was available as an add-in or replacement graphics card.

Another option for playing 1998-and-previous era games that really need 640x480 is to set up a machine that's a little closer to that era. People playing Doom (1993/1994) and Wolfenstein 3D (1992) were probably doing so on a machine like a Performa 630, so literally anything from 1993 to 1998 or 1999 would be suitable, there.

Another I'd try is reinstalling Mac OS 9 from, if you can find it: the eMac 2003 OS 9.2.2 install CD. If you can't find that, a retail 9.2.1 CD - especially if you got the machine with an OS9 install on it, or you used one of the custom OS9 installation CD images at MacOS9Lives.

 

[Rick Dangerous]

Thanks!  I'll try a VGA monitor tonight just for interests sake. 

 

[Cory5412]

Thinking about this, if your target is primarily (or even "heavily") very old Classic Mac OS games, like, from the 68k era, that need or expect 640x480, you might look into downgrading to another video card and having an entire separate system (perhaps an MDD or a G5, with an even better video card) for OS X.

 

[jessenator]

Here's my 2¢ and experience:
I have a 2000s Sony VGA monitor, and when I attach it to my Rage128 (with the most recent Classic OS ATi driver set) I get a load of resolutions that show up (more in the control strip than in the control panel initially, for some reason…).

The resolutions in the list, as expansive as it is, is not 100% compatible with my monitor—It displays some refresh rates that are outside my monitor's range.

I'll get some screen shots tonight to show what I'm on about, but some of the resolutions are italicized, others not. I thought that was the indicator of whether or not it worked with my display. But they all work regardless of the stylized text, save the ones outside the frequency range (>75Hz on mine) which lends more credence to it being a driver-and-video-card-related situation vs monitor. But I could be wrong on that point.

It would definitely be wrong if you managed to get a different monitor working at 640x480  

 

[LaPorta]

Honestly, an iMac G3 of any variety would probably be a pretty awesome machine for this.

 

[MacFox]

Have you tried the 2005 OS9 Ati Drivers from Macintosh Garden?

 

[Rick Dangerous]

Have you tried the 2005 OS9 Ati Drivers from Macintosh Garden?

No but this is probably a good idea.  I'll take a look; or if you happen to have a link that would be much appreciated.  

I know this monitor can do 640x480 in OS9 because it did it on my G4 cube, granted it was the cubes stock 16MB VRAM graphics card, and this is a slightly later 32MB Mac ATI Card...  I'm going to keep working on this.

 

[MacFox]

Here you go: http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/ati-os-9-drivers-january-2005

 

[Rick Dangerous]

Of course everything works just fine with a standard PC monitor......lol

Wonder if the power draw from the ADC is freaking out the card or what...

 

[jessenator]

You'd think an ADC-equipped card would have provision in the design to avoid those kinds of issues, if that's indeed what it is.

 

[MacFox]

Back when Other World Computing still sold the Radeon 7500, I remember reading on the product page that the Sawtooth had issues with ADC.  I use a multi-sync PC monitor with mine.

 

[Cory5412]

I remember reading on the product page that the Sawtooth had issues with ADC.

The Sawtooth is prior to ADC being introduced.

This system is almost certainly a Digital Audio.

A Sawtooth with an ADC graphics card installed should not power the connected display at all.

This is another solid point about this machine though. if the OS was set up for a sawtooth and, well, this is not a sawtooth that could be causing some of the driver issues that we think might be causing the ADC display not to show different modes.

You'd think an ADC-equipped card would have provision in the design to avoid those kinds of issues, if that's indeed what it is.

Anecdotally, the ADC-equipped Macs are reported (or used to be when these displays were less old) to have power supply problems at slightly higher rates than the other kinds, especially when being used with the ADC-powered 17-inch CRT display.

 

[jessenator]

Yeah, I forgot they went up that large and that's a lot of juice

 

[Rick Dangerous]

Still toying with the idea of getting multiple resoloutions out of my Cinema Display under OS9.  If i sprung for a Mac DVI to ADC adaptor; would i then theoretically be powering the monitor, and able to get VGA out?  Say this item:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-Apple-DVI-to-ADC-Adapter-A1006-With-Cords-DVI-I-To-VGA-Connector/124021404747

The adc goes into the power brick, then a VGA cable or DVI comes out with i would have to convert to VGA?

I feel 99% sure that if i can power that monitor, and get it to VGA out, that i'll be able to switch res in OS9.  Thanks for any and all input thoughts.

Side note--have a conquest happening today-will post pics tomorrow, pretty fun one and worth a 40 minute drive for me