Local estate find in San Diego

[3lectr1cPPC]

A community member from San Diego - not this forum. A fellow San Diegan who had visited the house several times put me in touch with the family who subsequently arranged my visit. Good grief!

Ah, ok. He wasn't active here though, more on apple ][ forums I believe.

 

[Daniël]

Now you're implying I have stolen goods? What is wrong with you?

How do you at this point know you don't, though? This thread is full of people claiming their property is still amongst the many items in the house, can you be fully sure nothing you bought is part of that?

 

[ried]

How do you at this point know you don't, though? This thread is full of people claiming their property is still amongst the many items in the house, can you be fully sure nothing you bought is part of that?

Ever bought anything from an estate / yard / garage sale? How do you know it wasn't stolen?

 

[finkmac]

@ried, I appreciate your posts, and your collection.
This really is a fine mess you've found yourself in.
I'm just an outside observer and from what I can tell, bad things have happened... and you have the opportunity and ability to make them right.

Reading this thread though, a particular Shakespeare quote comes to mind... "The lady doth protest too much, methinks"..
I don't think anybody is claiming you purchased stolen goods, but the concern is very much present. It does not look good.
I do believe @a2fan mentioned some ISAAC cards?
Regardless, your responses in this thread are not a good look in your history. Doubling down rarely ends well...

 

[Cory5412]

I'm saying you might, based on what we've seen from everyone else, you should coordinate with a2fan and pauhagstrom to confirm.

 

[ried]

@Reid, I appreciate your posts, and your collection.
This really is a fine mess you've found yourself in.
I'm just an outside observer and from what I can tell, bad things have happened... and you have the opportunity and ability to make them right.

Reading this thread though, a particular Shakespeare quote comes to mind... "The lady doth protest too much, methinks"..
I don't think anybody is claiming you purchased stolen goods, but the concern is very much present. It does not look good.
I do believe @a2fan mentioned some ISAAC cards?
Regardless, this doesn't look good, and this thread is not a good look in your history. Doubling down rarely ends well...

I've already been in touch with @a2fan, who gave ISAAC cards to the deceased and does not want them back. I'm not someone who has ever taken anything that didn't belong to me, and do not appreciate the implications and innuendo happening here. At all.

 

[Daniël]

Ever bought anything from an estate / yard / garage sale? How do you know it wasn't stolen?

That's deflecting my question, there is pretty clearly difference from a random sale, and a well documented collection from a notable community figure who had other people's stuff on loan. Which, again, has been made clear here. Lashing out at concerned folks just makes you look bad, and uncaring that others might have lost their precious collection pieces, because you've got yours. I'm sure that's not what you mean, but that is how you're starting to come across.

 

[AndyO]

Now you're implying I have stolen goods? What is wrong with you?

It depends on the law in California. It could be (based on English law) that only the legal owner of property can lawfully sell it, so if you buy something not legally sold, you never actually own it. Technically, not 'stolen property' though - the definition of that is to intentionally deny lawful access to the legal owner.

Some places have a much less proscriptive definition however. And even in England there are 5 places lawfully designated where 'stolen' property can be sold and the title transfers to the buyer.

I don't know what California law says on the subject, but if I were the executor of this estate, I'd be asking the police to handle any next steps. Not necessarily as a criminal matter, but to facilitate resolving it. Sadly, the executor doesn't seem to have much control over the estate itself at this point.

 

[ried]

That's deflecting my question, there is pretty clearly difference from a random sale, and a well documented collection from a notable community figure who had other people's stuff on loan.

You're asking me to prove a negative. FWIW, the collection is NOT well documented. That house is chaos and neglect, inside and out.

 

[AndyO]

I'm saying you might, based on what we've seen from everyone else, you should coordinate with a2fan and pauhagstrom to confirm.

By what authority would they act in any more of a lawful role than the people who let the OP into the house and took his money? Who knows who these people are?

The 'authorities' are the right people to work with, and estate law is governed by courts.

 

[bhtooefr]

Now you're implying I have stolen goods? What is wrong with you?

The accusation earlier in the thread was, essentially, that someone other than the executor of the estate, without the authorization of the executor of the estate, is who you purchased the items from.

If that accusation is true, those items would have been stolen from the estate.

 

[a2a2a2]

You know to be honest I'm a little surprised you didn't see this coming fifteen million miles away. A collection that big had to belong to someone right? And they were likely big on the scene, right? But we live and we learn.

It's not all your fault, it really feels like the administration and/or the family may not be well organized or even unified on what "should" happen here.

Bowing out is a fine choice, you should put the family or the administrator in contact with a2fan and paulhagstrom if they're not already, and you should be willing to coordinate with them should it be found that anything sold to you was sold fraudulently or otherwise under false pretenses.

I can confirm, the family is indeed not well organized, and Tony's unexpected and sudden passing did not help the situation. Their lack of familiarity with Tony's hobby certainly exacerbates things as well as its scale.

 

[ried]

The accusation earlier in the thread was, essentially, that someone other than the executor of the estate, without the authorization of the executor of the estate, is who you purchased the items from.

If that accusation is true, those items would have been stolen from the estate.

The sale of items is being facilitated by the family. Nobody is disputing that.

 

[wthww]

I just want to be really clear here guys -- please treat Tony's family with the utmost respect. This could be one of us some day.

Frankly, as someone who knew Tony, and appreciated him, I expect anyone that has dealings with his family to be 100% above board. If it comes out that there has been misconduct of some kind, we won't look kindly on it.

Thanks,

//wthww

 

[ried]

I just want to be really clear here guys -- please treat Tony's family with the utmost respect. This could be one of us some day.

Frankly, as someone who knew Tony, and appreciated him, I expect anyone that has dealings with his family to be 100% above board. If it comes out that there has been misconduct of some kind, we won't look kindly on it.

Thanks,

//wthww

Agreed. That should also go for anyone thinking of taking advantage of the family with unscrupulous claims like "Hey, I lent Tony a Lisa with Twiggy drives. Can you send it back to me?"

 

[AndyO]

...we won't look kindly on it.

Oh wow. Just, oh wow. It gets even more bizarre.

I get that Tony Diaz was highly respected and that many long time Apple users knew him and had interactions with him, and ANY death is a loss, not just specified ones. But a little perspective here, because the implication that the OP acted in any way improperly or was responsible for 'misconduct' doesn't seem at all borne out by what information we have. But that's just me, trying rather more than some to be impartial.

Agreed. That should also go for anyone thinking of taking advantage of the family with unsubstantiated claims like "Hey, I lent Tony a Lisa with Twiggy drives. Can you send it back to me?"

Sadly, there could well be a lot of that.
.

 

[a2a2a2]

Check your facts. Nothing was given away. I paid thousands of dollars for what I purchased and Tony's Dad was present, as well as his nephew. If someone else in the family has an issue with how the estate is being managed, that is for the family to sort out itself. Half-truths and innuendo from third parties in these forums don't help anyone.

Trying to get to the bottom of this. What did you pay Tony's brother-in-law for the whole lot? Because Tony's brother, who is requesting the equipment back, is unaware of any money exchanged.

 

[ried]

Trying to get to the bottom of this. What did you pay Tony's brother-in-law for the whole lot? Because Tony's brother, who is requesting the equipment back, is unaware of any money exchanged.

That is quite literally none of your business, random person on the Internet.

 

[AndyO]

Trying to get to the bottom of this. What did you pay Tony's brother-in-law for the whole lot? Because Tony's brother, who is requesting the equipment back, is unaware of any money exchanged.

I wonder, and it is pertinent, by what authority the family members who allowed access and took money from the OP did so.

For the record, you don't seem to have any right to expect any information on the transaction unless you are the executor of the estate. Which also begs the question as to what capacity you are acting in to 'get to the bottom of this', and in what way does that differ from the authority the family members seem to have thought they had?

The executor is the only person with a right to know, and even then, it is because the executor has a legal duty to disburse the estate correctly, including taxes owing on it.

If it irritates that I poke back at this, and keep doing so, imagine how irritating is must be for someone who paid 'thousands of dollars' in good faith, and is being pursued here (and accused, and somewhat threatened) simply because they went out of their way to publicize their actions.

 

[a2a2a2]

You LITERALLY wrote, "Check your facts." Therefore, I am. If you paid "thousands of dollars", then what was the amount? Or did you do some sly talking and just offer to take some worthless junk off their hands so they didn't have to move it?