Jonathan Prototype: Rebuilding a legend (Feedback Requested)

[Ajaxermd]

I'm looking to rebuild the legendary Macintosh Jonathan Prototype from Frog Design. Its design language served as the basis for the Snow White series.

I've built out an initial generic module on my Bambu A1 Mini 3D printer. (see picture)

Now it's time to build out an additional working module. I'm thinking my Syquest 105 external drive might be a good candidate

The Plan (feedback please!)
I'm using a Bambu A1 Mini 3D printer which can produce prints with a max size of 7" on a side. So I need relatively small modules
1. Compute - I'm thinking of using a Mac Mini G4, it can be made to dual boot both OS9 and OSX 10.5. So the Jonathan can run Classic and OSX. I may eventually add a Raspberry Pi running System 7.
2. PSU - The Mac Mini G4 comes with an external power supply that can be embedded in a different module.
3. CD-ROM - I may be able to separate the Mac Mini CD-ROM to be its own module

Issue: The Mac Mini G4 does not have SCSI. HOWEVER I have the Xpress SCSI to USB cable and tested it this morning on my G5 and it mounts the Syquest 105.

Modules
Syquest 105 - You can see the Syqest 105 with its case removed. Its similar in size to the generic module so I'll make the module a bit wider.

Other Modules I'm considering (Please VOTE)

1. SCSI ZIP drive
2. SCSI Hard Drive
3. 1.4 MB Disk drive. (Likely a SuperDisk drive mounted through USB)

That would give me 7 modules total

 

[LaPorta]

This is possibly one of the coolest things I’ve seen yet. I’ll be following this. Always thought this was one of the neatest things I’d seen through Apple’s history. Will you attempt to build the entire module/base setup?

 

[LaPorta]

What would be insane and just as cool is if someone here who lays out board designs (like @Bolle ) could design a mini board replacement to fit in one of those modules, being the equivalent of an early PPC or Quadra to work with. This is too cool…

 

[cheesestraws]

3. CD-ROM - I may be able to separate the Mac Mini CD-ROM to be its own module

You can also get external USB drives that are relatively easy to recase. I did this to put one into an under-desk mount at one point.

I'm looking to rebuild the legendary Macintosh Jonathan Prototype from Frog Design

One of the things that sank the Jonathan concept, which we can do better nowadays, is the backplane: how do the modules actually speak to one another? At this point, we have USB and firewire, and possibly newer things, which are hotpluggable and would make things far easier.

Now, if all you want is a computer that looks like a Jonathan, for its industrial design, this is probably overkill. But I think personally it would be really interesting to try to build a working jonathan-like which actually has interchangeability/pluggability of modules into a modular chassis. I think this is doable, and if you're interested - I'm not trying to change the course of your project! - but if you are interested, I would encourage you to have a go.

 

[Ajaxermd]

This is possibly one of the coolest things I’ve seen yet. I’ll be following this. Always thought this was one of the neatest things I’d seen through Apple’s history. Will you attempt to build the entire module/base setup?

Yes, I'll be building out the full physical "backplane". There will be some shenanigans on the backside to make it fully work. SCSI to USB adapters and lots of wires to hide on the backside, but it will be fully working.

For the monitor, I likely need an early multi-sync CRT that will work with the DVI->VGA output of the G4 Mac mini.
I looked at older monitors, but they are fixed 640x480. I'll need to paint the monitor black, which I hate to do, but monitors aren't a previous as the Macs.

There are two Apple 12” monochrome monitors at 640x480

Apple High-Resolution Monochrome Monitor (M0400) and another for the LC (M1050)


Could use Apple High Resolution Monochrome monitor
https://siliconfeatures.com/apple-high-resolution-monochrome-monitor/

 

[Ajaxermd]

You can also get external USB drives that are relatively easy to recase. I did this to put one into an under-desk mount at one point.



One of the things that sank the Jonathan concept, which we can do better nowadays, is the backplane: how do the modules actually speak to one another? At this point, we have USB and firewire, and possibly newer things, which are hotpluggable and would make things far easier.

Now, if all you want is a computer that looks like a Jonathan, for its industrial design, this is probably overkill. But I think personally it would be really interesting to try to build a working jonathan-like which actually has interchangeability/pluggability of modules into a modular chassis. I think this is doable, and if you're interested - I'm not trying to change the course of your project! - but if you are interested, I would encourage you to have a go.

I do have a USB CD-ROM Superdrive (the really slim ones) that I could use. But hoping to be able to use the Mac Mini's G4 CD-ROM.
I'm going for the look here. I think actually turning them into modules with a working backplane is beyond my capabilities.

 

[LaPorta]

Yes, I was going to say that the USB SuperDrive would be a great option. One option could be that if you went with a newer Mac Mini, the backplate could simply be a massive USB-C/Thunderbolt hub essentially: you could run a monitor and basically any other peripheral right off of that.

 

[cheesestraws]

I'm going for the look here. I think actually turning them into modules with a working backplane is beyond my capabilities.

Absolutely reasonable! I look forward to seeing what it looks like when it's done

 

[LaPorta]

I do have a USB CD-ROM Superdrive (the really slim ones) that I could use. But hoping to be able to use the Mac Mini's G4 CD-ROM.
I'm going for the look here. I think actually turning them into modules with a working backplane is beyond my capabilities.

Would you be at all opposed to someday, when you are done, sharing your design files so some of us could try similar things?

 

[Melkhior]

One of the things that sank the Jonathan concept, which we can do better nowadays, is the backplane

I'm not sure why the backplane would have been a problem in 1985? It was a common approach at the time (S-100, Multibus, VME, ..). I don't remember any "pretty" computer designed with any of those, though. They were all meant for machines rooms, not living rooms like this "Jonathan" was.

The concept of backplane was killed by ever-increasing bus frequency. At the time they were all parallel buses, and having a lot of very long traces with many stubs doesn't really work at "high" frequency (above, say, 20 to 40 MHz). So first the CPU gained first-class status vs. evrybody else, then the memory moved in with the CPU, and then the backplane was dead. Even for I/O PCI was pushed to 66 MHz and that didn't take (only a handful of system including some G4 used 66 MHz, while PCI-X was up to 133 MHz maximum practically and that never left the server room either), and PCI was purely internal so with some level of controls of the environment. Then everybody switched to fast, differential serial connection connected point-to-point, and only retrocomputing anthusiasts have ever looked back.

The module made by the OP is quite nice looking. Looking forware to see the completed project!

 

[cheesestraws]

I'm not sure why the backplane would have been a problem in 1985? It was a common approach at the time (S-100, Multibus, VME, ..). I don't remember any "pretty" computer designed with any of those, though. They were all meant for machines rooms, not living rooms like this "Jonathan" was.

Because of what you said: they were meant for machine rooms, not for end-users. The problem wasn't the technology: the problem would have been the user experience.

 

[Ajaxermd]

Would you be at all opposed to someday, when you are done, sharing your design files so some of us could try similar things?

Yes, I’ll be posting the STL for the generic module shortly. Then people can remix it

 

[Ajaxermd]

Yes, I was going to say that the USB SuperDrive would be a great option. One option could be that if you went with a newer Mac Mini, the backplate could simply be a massive USB-C/Thunderbolt hub essentially: you could run a monitor and basically any other peripheral right off of that.

I don’t think the drivers for the USB to SCSI device I have work with Intel Macs. I really want some modules for my SCSI devices.

 

[LaPorta]

If you had cash to burn, or someone was generous, a FW to SCSI adapter may work better: no drivers, works even over modern thunderbolt.

 

[Snial]

I'm looking to rebuild the legendary Macintosh Jonathan Prototype from Frog Design. Its design language served as the basis for the Snow White series.
View attachment 68425View attachment 68426

It looks amazing, but also somehow very NeXT and also very Rick Dickinson (think ZX81 / Sinclair QL / Pandora):



https://flic.kr/p/2hG4RR

 

[Ajaxermd]

Would you be at all opposed to someday, when you are done, sharing your design files so some of us could try similar things?

Yes, I'm working in Fusion 360 so I can share the STL files and maybe the original Fusion files.
I'd love to get an ecosystem going of people building on re-casing modules for older SCSI devices.

Really enjoying Fusion 360, my first significant 3D work since Strata Studio Pro and VRML in the late 90s!

 

[Ajaxermd]

It looks amazing, but also somehow very NeXT and also very Rick Dickinson (think ZX81 / Sinclair QL / Pandora):

View attachment 68440

https://flic.kr/p/2hG4RR

For the keyboard I have a crazy idea that might just work.

1. I have a cracked Apple IIGS ADB Keyboard.
2. I'm also signed up for the MacEffects Apple Iic black case. It has black keycaps.
3. I can spray paint the keyboard using this paint which is a perfect match for the black MacTV!
4. So I'd have a black ABD keyboard with the period correct letters.
   
   

 

[Ajaxermd]

If you had cash to burn, or someone was generous, a FW to SCSI adapter may work better: no drivers, works even over modern thunderbolt.

That would be amazing, but that's some expensive kit. I am looking for a Mac Mini G4 if anyone has one, happy to pay for it.

 

[Ajaxermd]

Does anyone know what the earliest MultiSync Monitor was from Apple?
One that didn't have fixed 640x480.
I'm trying to get one with this look, No control panel under the screen. Maybe one of the LC matching monitors?

 

[LaPorta]

I don’t believe that anything in that era/design was MultiSync.