I got a DUO!!!...but.......

[The Macster]

So while all you guys are getting G4s and Xceed cards from Freecycle (lucky... ), the only Freecycle Mac score that I can make (got it yesterday) is this one...Not bad, you might say, a PowerBook Duo 230, only my second Apple laptop! But...

It certainly is a very sweet machine, I can't believe how tiny it is, especially considering how old it is. It really is a lovely little design, like all of the old PowerBooks. It even has a trackball mouse - I've never seen one of these before and it feels as though it could be quite nice to use.

However, the but...(or should I say the buts... :'(

*No power adapter

*No screws in the bottom - despite this it has no problems staying together, although the keyboard is not very nice to use as it's not screwed down.

*Its working condition is unknown - the guy that gave it to me thought that it might not work even if I can find an adapter

On the plus side, it is in pretty good condition cosmetically, it seems to all be there (apart from the screws and adapter), and is that a memory upgrade of some description on the right there? I did put a wanted out on Freecycle for an adapter as soon as I got it home, but haven't had any responses a bit - I might try some more Freecycle groups to see if I can get one.

So, any ideas what I should do with it, seeing as it's pretty dead? What I have realised is that there is no floppy, CD, SCSI or ethernet on it, so is it impossible to install an OS and software on it without a DuoDock? (I did think the thing on the back under the cover was some sort of ultra-wide SCSI at first, but then I realised it must be for connecting it to the Dock) I guess if it already has an OS of some sort on it then you could LocalTalk a new system folder and software from another Mac, but otherwise you're stuffed? And these things can never get on the internet without the Dock either?

Some pictures of this little beauty, so sweet despite its dead-ness: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7

PS I was flicking through the Apple Service Source manual for this model just to get an idea of where everything is on it, and I just had to show you guys this page, I knew you'd love it!

 

[II2II]

I can't help you on most counts, but I will comment that it is possible to install an OS over the LocalTalk port -- assuming that you already have something to boot off of on the hard drive:

Boot, rename the old system folder, drag the system file to the trash, connect to the network via the LocalTalk port, run the installer from the other computer, when done verify that the new system folder is blessed else you will end up with a PowerBrick Duo 230. Reboot.

The Duos are nice machines. I once had one with over 32 MB RAM, and it was a dream to use in System 7. The keyboard was mushy though.

 

[Quadraman]

Since the screws are already out, you should probably try to open it the rest of the way and give it a good cleaning. You'd be amazed at the amount of dust and fluff that can get trapped inside a laptop.

 

[The Macster]

Since the screws are already out, you should probably try to open it the rest of the way and give it a good cleaning. You'd be amazed at the amount of dust and fluff that can get trapped inside a laptop.

Yes, I always worry about the amount of dust that must be inside my Acer as it has a lot of fans and vents on it and gets very hot even without being full of dust, but I'm too terrified to attempt opening it. I will probably wait and see if I can find an adapter before opening it though, as I would never risk opening a laptop that is working, as you can only make things worse At them moment I have no idea whether or not it is in working order.

Will screws from anything else work (I think I may have some spare PB520 screws, for instance, or just random ones that I can find lying around), or do they have to be specific Duo ones and therefore impossible to obtain without finding and scrapping another Duo?

 

[iMac600]

Nice find there!

I have one of these (albeit the 280c) with Word 5.1, Spectre Challenger, etc preloaded. If I need to print something, I just connect it to the Personal LaserWriter NT. Simple.

 

[II2II]

The Duos are not too bad to work in, unlike my old PBG4 (which had an uncountable number of screws, each of which seemed to be a different length, and the wrong length screw would result in a dysfunctional laptop).

But if you're expecting to clean out dust, I wouldn't bother. The Duo doesn't have a fan.

 

[MultiFinder]

FEETS!!!!!!!

 

[wally]

My father told me that before getting good at stuff mechanically there is a certain amount of breakage that is going to occur, to the work, the tools, and your skin. It is best therefore to experiment gently on free stuff that is not rare and that is not known to be working... this minimizes any guilt!

Hmmm, in this particular case, for the lower section only with the missing screws, if you were to carefully follow the Apple Service Source Take Apart instructions, which are excellent, what could happen?

1. Might discover something significant inside missing/removed/burnt that means getting an adapter not required.

2. Might discover something conductive loose inside that should be secured/removed or a cable that should be reconnected before power up .

3. Hard drive could be gone, removed for privacy/security reasons.

4. Might find one or more metal inserts stripped or loose in their cracked plastic mountings that means replacement screws are not a sufficient fix.

5. Might discover blown fuses anywhere on the logic board.

6. Small creature got inside and never left.

7. Opportunity to clean and polish.

Maybe if you take apart something in unknown condition, especially if you have the service manual, you can only make things more likely to have the right outcome. And the more you do this, the better you will get. You can increase the odds by being gentle, taping removed screws near where they go back, and taking photos at key steps along the way. And by discharging any static charge to ground points, not IC signal connections. And should you fix it you will have bragging rights and be insufferably proud, which is what we want for you!

And what if you break something or lose your way? It was free, there will be more, you were never certain it would ever work anyway, now you know how we get our extensive spare parts collections built up, and we will never tell on you, as long as we never find out! [] ]'>

 

[The Macster]

I can see your point; of course it's better to experiment on an old freebie computer than an expensive new one However, I really want to find an adapter first to see whether or not it is already in working order. Also it's such a sweet little machine and I'd feel terrible if I damaged it, even if it is found to be non-working Laptops don't appear on Freecycle very often so it wouldn't be easy to get another one anyway - I've only ever found one other Apple laptop before.

Desktop Macs I am willing to have a little look inside, for instance I found some bits and put them all inside my G3, though it was quite scary as it would have upset me so much to break that machine. Apples seem quite good for learning how to repair and upgrade computers in general, as the concepts are similar to PCs but they have the very detailed service manuals, which as you say are very helpful if you need guidance. Laptops, however, are generally best left to people who know what they're doing, as they're hard to open, easy to break, and not really upgradeable or repairable anyway. I think I've told the story before of the ThinkPad 570 that I was given a while ago, whose backlight wouldn't come on - I really wanted to get it to work but of course couldn't, couldn't even get the screws out of the thing! (it would probably have needed me to buy a new inverter or backlight anyway, even if I knew how to fit one, which I didn't want to do) Ended up eBaying it for about £20 profit, guess someone fixed it up and either got a good profit or a nice laptop out of it.

I will try the London Freecycle soon for one - there's so many members on there that you can usually get something that suits your requirements from there. I got the adapter and some screws for my PB 520 from there, which was also given to me minus adapter and screws! (yeah, I get all the best freebies don't I?! Not... )

 

[wally]

I agree that Mac laptops are harder to liberate than desktop units but I think since you have the Apple manuals you really have a huge advantage over the average enthusiast wanting to learn. Again, I think there is an element of danger just powering up a new conquest in unknown condition that someone left partly open without doing an inside inspection first. It is frequently true that laptops and their accessories tend to have hidden screws, and even worse, those snap together once hidden plastic latches, that, even when you know where they are, and which way they unsnap, tend to break off when you try to unlatch them. But if you have no hidden screws, and no snap latches, just friction and a tight fit, laptops are not that much harder, just more packed. This may be the case with your Duo, I do not know. It's the part around the LCD screen that tends to have hidden latches and really well hidden screws, and if the service source tells you where they are you can learn to deal with it.

What I am thinking is that laptops that have no hope of being Internet usable, grayscale only, no PCMCIA slots and less than 32MB memory might be considered fair game to completely strip down and rebuild, getting you someday to the point where if a daily driver laptop needs some service or upgrade you already know the tricks to work with tight constructed plastics (including warming the plastic some with a hairdryer before bending it). If you could be ok with breaking some stuff to learn you eventually would become one of those people who know what they're doing. But if this one is too pretty, try finding another with a bashed in screen or broken case; the only way to get comfortable working on laptops is to take them apart and put them back together again with some help from manuals. More years on desktop systems is not going to help that much.

And if you plug in your adapter and hear some sizzle or arcing from inside, well, it was on my list of warnings. When I get something home with even loose screws, let alone all missing ones, that tells me someone else was in there for a reason, what was that reason?

 

[The Macster]

I think to "experiment" it would have to be something known to be completely dead, and also of no value for parts ie a 286 with a caved-in screen or something like that. This Duo is in nice condition, better than my 520 in fact, and it's a beautiful little thing really. And Macs have feelings, ya know It would be painful to break a Mac, especially one that might have worked if I'd left it alone. Newer known-broken stuff like the ThinkPad is no good either as they still have value, people buying them on eBay to repair or for parts, but not after someone's trashed them "experimenting"

The Apple manuals are useful, they certainly helped with the G3. They're available to anyone interested though, I just downloaded them (I've got all the 68k ones; I think I might archive all the PPC ones too at some point, as Apple keep shutting down the places hosting them and it would be annoying to not have access to them any more).

I did have a little peek under the keyboard, seeing as it's not screwed down - it all looks in order as far as I can see. I see your point about it being damaged inside, although I reckon on balance the chance of me making it worse by trying to open it up/not being able to get it to go back together again is higher than the chance of there being something loose inside that will kill it if I plug it in (presumably if that is the case then it was killed the last time it was plugged in anyway).

I think I'm too scared of breaking stuff (including myself, as in the case of CRT Macs, which I would never dare to open) to ever be a hardware guru :-/

It is the case that the Duo can never get online then? (as it doesn't really have any ports of any description) The 520 has seen the internet, although it does have built-in ethernet - for some reason it worked on the 100mbit network at uni, but didn't seem to like the router at home when I tried it.

Oh, and is that thing I showed in the picture at the top definitely a memory upgrade? If so is there any way of knowing what size it is without being able to power up the machine?

 

[wally]

I read somewhere that there is 4MB soldered in and there can be 24MB total max for that model. Find the spec sheet for the memory chips, remove the single expansion board you have and count them (sometimes two sided surface mount), do the math and you know. Ground yourself if you do this as not to zap the electronics with static electricity. The other expansion position further to the rear is for a modem option, I believe.

 

[The Macster]

Where do you find the specs of the memory? I tried searching the web with some of the codes printed on the top of each chip (below) but to no avail:

JAPAN 0013

9409 5NN

51W4800ATT8

It also says "KR 4094" on the memory board itself, but that didn't produce any relevant results either.

It's not clear how to get the memory module out either - in the manual they just show it as slotting in, but don't mention getting it out and it seems as though the side casing is in the way of sliding it anyway - I don't want to try just pulling at it!

Not that it matters greatly; I just wondered how much memory my PB had, as 4 MB is hopeless but if it's got 8 or even 12 then that would be quite nice. Haven't had any offers of an adapter yet though, so it looks like this little guy might be staying dead for a while longer :'(

 

[wally]

Where do you find the specs of the memory?...

Only sometimes are you lucky enough to be able to find the specs, just the way you did, by Google searching the numbers marked. If the commercial part number is marked there is a small chance that you can find a spec sheet or part description of some sort. But most often memory parts have some special number that is negotiated between the big name memory chip maker and the expansion board manufacturer, yielding a dead end search. In the trade, these are called "house numbers" for in-house use only, forcing all would be outside service people to have to custom order a premium priced usually otherwise standard part from the board manufacturer.

My guess on those numbers is made in Japan, chip manufacturer identity code=13, ninth week in 1994 manufacturing date, mfg line, batch or process 5NN, customer or part number 51W4800ATT8, or just 51W4800, but I agree these do not look promising on my end either. In any case 24 MB is just not enough to have real fun on the internet, life begins at 48 MB and gets pleasant at 64 MB and above, IMHO. But for word processing and spreadsheets, I'm sure you have plenty as is, whatever the size of that expansion card. Originally Apple offered 2,4,6,8, or 10MB simm choices, at least as I read from an old Apple Compatibility Chart.

 

[wally]

I looked at your photo again, and thought the logo looked like Hitachi. So I searched Hitachi memory catalog and saw the format of some of their commercial part numbers, that started with HM51..., so I reformatted your number as HM514800ATT8 and did a search. Eventually I got http://www.datasheets.org.uk/specsheet.php?part=HM514800ATT8 which says half a megabyte per chip.

Hold a dental mirror up to the modem option slot, which looks like the same socket manufacturer as the memory slot. However the modem is installed, chances are the memory board goes in the same direction...

 

[The Macster]

Cool, thanks for that So that means at least 4 MB, 8 MB if there's chips on the other side too! 7.6.1 would be good on here, if only for an adapter and some sort of functioning OS already on the drive so that it could be installed from another Mac. Do you know what the thing in the modem slot is by any chance, is it some sort of board just to fill the space or something? It's not a modem as the space for a modem port on the back is blanked off, and the top of the board looks to be mostly just plain green with nothing on it.

 

[beachycove]

The board in the modem slot doubles as some sort of power board; I think the reset button is there, in fact. The Duo modems also have it.

If you want to see if it works, any of the Duos will run from an adapter for the 1400, 2400, 3400, Wallstreet, etc. So while having a proper Duo adapter would be ideal, the easiest thing might be to find a pal with any of these others and try starting it up. It'll draw as many watts as it needs.

The 280c Duos are the pick of the 68k powerbook litter, in my estimation. Alas, I can't get mine to work properly, but I have a 270c which runs flawlessly. I even get a couple of hours out of the battery, using a ram disk.

There are some TV adverts for your own model, as I recall, archived (among other places) at www.danpalka.net/powerbookduo/ These offer a little light entertainment on a rainy day, and really show off the design element, which, as you say, is striking. My Duos are about the same size as my 12" Powerbook, and they are (for their time) stunners.

One small tip: once you get it going, persevere with the keyboard; they have a poor reputation, but mine improved dramatically with a little 'firm' use.

I also have a spare Duo power supply, but the shipping would be astronomical. Better to find something locally.

 

[wally]

I don't know, originally I thought that was just the motherboard glass epoxy with an empty connector slot you could look into with a dental mirror, but now that you ask, maybe it is some kind of bus terminator that signals the machine things are normal, no modem installed, or maybe just electrically terminates some long signal runs so the waveforms look good to the rest of the system. You can try looking in the Apple service source for parts lists, maybe they will have a name rather than just a part number for the item.

 

[The Macster]

If you want to see if it works, any of the Duos will run from an adapter for the 1400, 2400, 3400, Wallstreet, etc. So while having a proper Duo adapter would be ideal, the easiest thing might be to find a pal with any of these others and try starting it up. It'll draw as many watts as it needs.

Woah, seriously?! Awesome, that greatly increases my chances of getting a suitable adapter! I had looked at this page, where it seems to say that only Duo adapters (from any model of Duo) will work. Why is it less than "ideal" to use a non-Duo one though, will it cause damage long-term?

Do you know exactly which ones will and won't work then, as I need to know which ones to ask for on Freecycle. I'm pretty sure that the ones for later G3 PBs were different as the end of the YoYo adapter is much fatter than the hole on the Duo as far as I can remember what the YoYo is like, though I'm not sure what the first PowerBook that the YoYo fitted was.

Edit: hmmm, actually looking at it again it's not as narrow as I had first thought, it looks like there may be a gap around the inner ring in the hole, like on the machines that take the YoYo.

You can try looking in the Apple service source for parts lists, maybe they will have a name rather than just a part number for the item.

Ah, good idea It says that it is an "on-off board", and is actually roughly underneath the location of the power button, so that is what it's for. Strange that the modem is combined with the machine's power button!

My Duos are about the same size as my 12" Powerbook, and they are (for their time) stunners.

They certainly are! Amazing compared with what the PC world was offering back then. The only problem with them is the difficulty of getting software or files to them without the DuoDock. Shame they don't have a little USB port on the back, there's definitely space there!