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going through my cable I found 4 of these, can someone tell me what they are for?

Verault

Well-known member
I found 4 cables each about a foot long. Db 25 Female on one end and DB 25 MAle on the other end. They have part numbers 590-0166-A and 590-0029-00

They all say MODEM ELIMINATOR

I want to sort and categorize my mess of peripherals and cables so does anyone know the uses for these cables?
modemElim.jpg
 

sstaylor

Well-known member
A null modem cable, perhaps?
Plugs into your modem cable and the other end plugs into another computer.
 

ScutBoy

Well-known member
Yup, Null-modem adapter. When you got your Apple "printer accessory kit" it would have a straight-through serial cable and one of these in it to hook up your printer.
 

Verault

Well-known member
Well Good to know, Not sure they will get much use but at least I know what they are. Thanks guys
 

olePigeon

Well-known member
I thought it was the equivalent of a piano wire for an assassin to take out a modem. Modem Eliminator! Starring Charles Bronson by Cannon Films. :D
 

Trash80toHP_Mini

NIGHT STALKER
We need a sufficiently villainous allcaps acronym for the bumpycaps contraction MoDem for the title of the screenplay.

Seriously, thanks for the info on that cable, Only Apple would come up with such a silly, expensive way to avoid implementing a switch on the cable or making a simple dongle. At least it's not another massively protruding connector like the PowerBook cables.
 

gsteemso

Well-known member
Seriously, thanks for the info on that cable, Only Apple would come up with such a silly, expensive way to avoid implementing a switch on the cable or making a simple dongle. At least it's not another massively protruding connector like the PowerBook cables.

There actually was a _very good_ reason they did it that way. Alas, since I have no idea how much anyone here knows or does not know about the hardware parts of vintage RS-232 stuff, I'll have to go into a bit of boring background detail before I can plainly explain why:

RS 232 style connections were bodged together so that random important pieces of equipment, which needed data connections but could not be kept next to the room a mainframe was in, could connect in a consistent way to the communication gear that made the distance feasible. For practical purposes, every "232-serial" line has a modem on one end and a piece of actual useful equipment on the other; respectively, they are formally called the "Data Communications Equipment" (DCE) and the "Data Terminal Equipment" (DTE).

That's an important point. 232-serial connections were defined purely as a dedicated interface to a telecom adapter. (Had it been done 25 years later, there might well have been an underlying assumption that the modem would be on an internal expansion card of some sort, instead of a separate unit tethered by a cable.) In those early days, the idea of using a 232-style link to join equipment of equal importance would have been nonsensical; generally, if the things were that close together, there were better methods to employ.

Long story short, 232-style connections started out very much a one-sided arrangement; the data could go both ways, but one end of the link was very obviously more important than the other. The result? All the pins in that DB-25 shell are named the same on both ends: "Transmit Data" carries data out of the DTE, and _into_ the DCE.

Next part of this is, while the _signals_ involved were standardized in the 1960s, the hardware was not. That D-25 connector and the arrangement of signal pins within it were more or less accidental - they were a de facto industry norm by the time anyone tried (and, naturally, failed) to standardize it. No one should be surprised that the few pins relevant to Apple II users were not at all conveniently positioned from one another.

The third needful data fragment: Conceptually, a null modem is literally an empty box with two 232-serial connectors. They're cross-connected inside the box, so that (for example) the "Transmit Data" signal on each of them is routed to the "Receive Data" signal on the other, and so on.

Putting all that together, a "null-modem cable" merely does the crossing-over inside the connector at one end, so rather than two serial cables and an empty box, you just have the one cable.

Here's where I actually address the topic I'm replying to: Normal and crossover 232-serial cables are not remotely similar on the inside. Building a cable with a single switch that reroutes half-a-dozen or more connections at once would have been vastly more expensive than what they did do, in simply tossing a normal crossover (null-modem) cable in with the regular straight-through one.
 

Verault

Well-known member
Sure ,but that doesnt explain why they had to make a cable to sell over a small adapter which does the same thing. I appreciate your input, but making a whole cable to charge customers for what a simple small adapter could do is just ridiculous and wasteful.
 

gsteemso

Well-known member
Sure ,but that doesnt explain why they had to make a cable to sell over a small adapter which does the same thing. I appreciate your input, but making a whole cable to charge customers for what a simple small adapter could do is just ridiculous and wasteful.
Ah, but in that time period, it would cost a good deal _more_ to properly manufacture a single-piece adapter of the type you envision. It would have had similar costs to the cable version for the connectors on each end and the assembly costs of having some schmuck solder all the connections into place, but instead of the already-amortized cost of moulding a hood onto each end of a cable, they would have had to cough up thousands -- in early '80s dollars, mind -- for new moulds to cast the body of a single-piece unit.

Don't get me wrong; I fully agree that a little moulded block, resembling a "gender changer" insert, would have been more convenient and elegant from a user's point of view. However, to just assume it would have cost less simply does not agree with the known manufacturing costs of that time period. I used to hold exactly the same opinion you now advocate; and could not believe the truth of the matter until I saw the numbers for myself. It is very couterintuitive.
 

Trash80toHP_Mini

NIGHT STALKER
LOL! What isn't counterintuitive about computing? Thanks for the background on mfg. processes involved, that explains much.

"It's intuitive" is the BIG LIE of GUI computing. A mother has the instinct to feed her newborn, the child has the instinct to suck anything available. But operating a breast efficiently from either direction of that I/O interface is LEARNED behavior. If that ain't intuitive, what the heck about computing can be considered intuitive? 😬
 

gsteemso

Well-known member
LOL! What isn't counterintuitive about computing? Thanks for the background on mfg. processes involved, that explains much.

"It's intuitive" is the BIG LIE of GUI computing. A mother has the instinct to feed her newborn, the child has the instinct to suck anything available. But operating a breast efficiently from either direction of that I/O interface is LEARNED behavior. If that ain't intuitive, what the heck about computing can be considered intuitive? 😬
Bwahahahah! That is an AWESOME illustrative parallel. :¬)
 

ScutBoy

Well-known member
I actually use my Apple modem eliminator cables more often to hook up terminals to various things, since I don't do much serial printing any more :)
 
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