Bad ram in a Macintosh SE?

[Appleanche]

Hey everyone,

I have a Macintosh SE that was upgraded to 4mb of ram.. when it first arrived it would bomb (want to restart) on control panel and any other desk accessory. Usually it was random errors, so I went and bought some 800k disks to do a clean install and I'm getting the same issue (except control panel now works fine..), except rather than random errors it's now saying out of memory. I notice that the about this finder is indicating that the Finder is using close to 4mb of ram...

Oddly, most every other program works fine with no hiccups or problems.. any ideas?

This is System 6.0.8..

 

[Apostrophe]

Yeah, that's generally a good and stable system...I have both of my Macintosh SEs running it just fine.

If it says out of memory I'd definitely try and reseat the RAM, it may help. Otherwise, replacing all the RAM is also a good idea.

If you're new to Compact Macs let us know, so we can tell you how to open it up and locate the RAM.

-Apostrophe

 

[phreakout]

Appleanche,

Also, try booting the SE without extensions (Restart; then when you see the smiley Mac icon, press and hold down the Shift key; you'll see "Welcome to Macintosh - Extensions Off" in the next screen.). It's possible you could be having an extensions conflict. Then all you'd have to do is remove all the extensions manually from their folder, restart the SE and, one at a time, add each extension until you find the bad one (restart, add an extension back to the system folder, restart, add an extension back to the system folder, restart, etc.) Either that, or get a copy of the shareware app Conflict Catcher and simply have it test each extension until it detects the bad one.

73s de Phreakout. :rambo:

 

[trag]

The system isn't creating a 3.5MB RAM disk at start up or something? It's weird that the Finder would be using close to 4 MB of RAM.

I'd try exploring all the DAs that are installed and see if any of them are doing something that's RAM hungry. If that doesn't reveal anything, try stripping all the DAs out of the system (adn what's the other thing? DAs and ???? go in the System in 6.x) and those other things.

See if the memory usage goes down.

If your machine is booting but the Finder is claiming it's using almost 4 MB of memory that sounds more like a software issue than a hardware issue.

Oh, read more carefully and see that you've gone to a completely different boot disk...

That's weird. I'd start by cleaning the SIMM sockets. Blow them out with some compressed air. Make sure the pins on your SIMMs are clean. Maybe try installing just one pair and see if anything changes....

 

[trag]

Ah, Phreakout, that's System 7 stuff. It doesn't work way back in System 6. In System 6 we had to get acquainted with a little thing called the Desk Accessory something or other. Desk Accessory Utility?

It stuck things directly into the System Suitcase. It was actually a little bit like an early version of Packages...

 

[zuiko21]

Font/DA Mover, perhaps?

 

[Appleanche]

Thanks for all the quick responses!

This is my first compact Mac, I should have clarified it a bit. It's a Macintosh SE with a HD & 800k drive. So I'm booting off the hard drive.

This is what about the finder says, now that I sort of look at it again maybe it isn't actually using that amount of RAM? I've never actually used a Mac system prior to 9 all that much (and even then, not all that much usage).

When I hit calculator it just comes up with a regular error (Hand thing) saying system out of memory, when I hit alarm clock it bombs with "illegal instruction" and then when I hit restart it pops up another bomb with "out of memory" and when I hit restart it usually freezes.

This is indeed my first compact, and I've never opened one.

Thanks again for the help

 

[Apostrophe]

The finder looks normal, actually.

There's a resistor on the logic board, and whether it's clipped or not tells the computer how much RAM there is; it doesn't detect it by itself. So it could be that you have less RAM than you think.

Somewhere on here there's a great PDF file with opening instructions and a walkthrough of all the systems written by Tom Lee. But if nobody links to that before I get back on, later on when I have more time I'll get back on here and tell you what to do.

-Apostrophe

 

[bigmessowires]

Isn't the Finder memory usage from that screenshot normal? My 4MB Plus looks the same. As I understand it, if you're running Finder and not Multi-Finder, then whatever application is running gets all the remaining RAM that's not used by the System.

 

[Appleanche]

The finder display probably is right, I'm just totally inexperienced with anything older than 9.

Interesting, the odd thing is that just about every other big program has worked fine. Mac Paint, Mac Draw, Mac Write, Dark Castle, and every other program I've tried runs fine with the exception of the first versions of some of them (Mac Paint will say no memory).. which is odd.. it's almost like the small, tiny programs like desk accessories and apps made for the 128k are coming up with errors.

I'm a bit skiddish at the thought of opening it up though, my experience with computers is basically just PC towers. I've really never worked on any complex machine, so I'm a bit terrified of not being able to put it together and also of the CRT..

 

[Apostrophe]

Nah, you'll be fine as long as you don't hit it with a brick.

To get it open, for starters you'll need a long shaft Torx-15 screwdriver. I found mine at Sears, they're fairly common.

No worries, I have 4 compacts, all of which I've opened at least twice, during which times I've swapped out and replaced RAM, floppy drives, hard drives, and heck, I've unplugged the CRT's high voltage anode cap. So really, you'll be fine, I promise.

Torx-15 screwdriver, two screws on the bottom, both sides, and two more down in the handle. When opening it, position it screen down on a towel. After you loosen the screws the case will still cling on tightly. Grab it by either side and shake it, pry it open with your hands, after a bit of effort it will come loose. Then, lift the case off vertically. As long as you do it perfectly vertically, you won't risk snapping the CRT's neck.

The logic board is a bit trickier. With the computer open, the board along the side with all the big, shiny components is the analog board; stay away from there for now. The logic board goes across the bottom of the computer; since it's screen down, it should be facing you. First, you'll have to remove the aluminum insulation sheet covering it, then unplug it from all the drives, and then work it upwards through the metal tabs, little by little. Pics would help you out there...I really need to find that pdf, it would help you a lot.

-Apostrophe

 

[phreakout]

Ah, Phreakout, that's System 7 stuff. It doesn't work way back in System 6. In System 6 we had to get acquainted with a little thing called the Desk Accessory something or other. Desk Accessory Utility?
It stuck things directly into the System Suitcase. It was actually a little bit like an early version of Packages...

Oops. Yeah, I guess you're right. My bad. But I do recall that unlike System 7, SSW 6 stores all the system extension files loosely inside the System Folder, unless you use the Font/DA Mover tool to properly add it to the System. Technically the extensions still work the same way as you would by installing via Font/DA Mover, the only difference is that the loose stored extensions use less steps to disable the extension (move the file out of the folder, then restart your Mac vs. using F/DA M to uninstall, then move the file then restart). Also, the suggestions do in fact work if you have installed Extensions Manager v1.8 (freeware from Apple) under SSW 6.0.8.

Okay, looking at the photo, it's saying that 4 MB of RAM has been allocated to the System, but the System and the Finder are using less than 512 kilobytes worth of that allocated space. So somewhere along the line that space in RAM needs to be released, in order for other apps to run and use that empty space. Can he do a Get Info of the Finder file and adjust the preferred memory size? Maybe even de-bloat the system of certain fonts and unnecessary items (desk accessories)?

The finder looks normal, actually.
There's a resistor on the logic board, and whether it's clipped or not tells the computer how much RAM there is; it doesn't detect it by itself. So it could be that you have less RAM than you think.

Somewhere on here there's a great PDF file with opening instructions and a walk-through of all the systems written by Tom Lee. But if nobody links to that before I get back on, later on when I have more time I'll get back on here and tell you what to do.

-Apostrophe

This resistor he talks about is for telling the SE what type of RAM SIMMs you're using. Early on, you used to get RAM in less than 1 MB capacities; yes, 256 K and 512 K size sticks did/do exist. The resistor was soldered in place to indicate that you had 256 K SIMMs installed. When you went to upgrade your SE to more than 1 MB of total RAM, the bench technician had to install the new sticks (512 K or 1 MB size) and then cut one side of the resistor and bend it up a bit, so that the SE would report back the correct amount. So, for example, you bought the SE with the stock 1 MB installed and later want to upgrade to say 2 MB. So the tech would swap out all 4 of the 256 K sticks for 4 512 K sticks to make it 2 MB. The tech then cut one resistor, causing the SE to report back the 2 MB.

73s de Phreakout. :rambo: