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Asante MacCon SE30 affecting video
- Thread starter TimHD
- Start date
TimHD
Well-known member
Thanks.
Would it be simpler to just acquire a new AB and PowerSupply (See link http://www.ebay.com/itm/131656565992) or just a tested 'new' power supply (http://www.ebay.com/itm/141837733321). Replacing the caps (after labour + freight etc) probably about the same.
Would it be simpler to just acquire a new AB and PowerSupply (See link http://www.ebay.com/itm/131656565992) or just a tested 'new' power supply (http://www.ebay.com/itm/141837733321). Replacing the caps (after labour + freight etc) probably about the same.
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Elfen
Well-known member
Like Macdrone said, it's the caps in the analog board needs to be replaced. And if the Logic has not received a recapping, it will too.
Also, the Asante card needs recapping.
BTW - I got a permission denied error in viewing your pic.
The problem I see here is ebay - sellers will say that something is done to the thing they are selling, like a recap on the analog board and state that is it "Like New." It's not. Buyer Beware. If you get it, get it and keep your old board and recap that. When time comes when you boar fails, you have an immediate replacement.
Also, the Asante card needs recapping.
BTW - I got a permission denied error in viewing your pic.
The problem I see here is ebay - sellers will say that something is done to the thing they are selling, like a recap on the analog board and state that is it "Like New." It's not. Buyer Beware. If you get it, get it and keep your old board and recap that. When time comes when you boar fails, you have an immediate replacement.
Apache Thunder
Well-known member
Seems the original poster didn't link his attachment correctly. Here's a working thumbnail link to his full image for those needing a closer look:
I found that removing "sml_" from the file name of the jpg linked to in the first post, you can view the full sized image. (I'm guessing the "sml_" is the naming convention that this forum uses for auto generated thumbnails on image attachments)
It's not using the expand in the same window/tab feature that this forum has since this is just standard IMG BBCode. It will be up for the original poster to fix it in his original post.
I suppose I could download it and reupload it to my own file attachment space, but I'm too lazy for that right now.
As for the issue at hand. I would guess the hard-drive swap wouldn't have made a difference. Not sure how the older power supplies worked, but the motherboard is probably on it's own 5v/12v rail. So a defective part on that rail would mean changes to the devices plugged into the molex connector may not have as big in impact on your issue since the PDS slot and anything else to do with the motherboard is on a separate rail then the molex connector for your hard-drive.
Unlike PCs, these old Macs used floppy drives with power provided by the motherboard. (as far as I'm aware anyway, I don't recall seeing a separate power cable last time I opened up my SE)
So you could run it with the floppy unplugged to see if it has an impact on your issue.
Then again, the age of the machine and the PSU means everything is probably on a single rail. Then I guess the PDS card was just pulling more current then your old hard-drive was so the swap made no difference.
But if it does have a separate rail, then perhaps your SCSI2SD actually compounded the problem if you had it powered from termination power instead of using the molex connector to power it. But you didn't say, so that may be irrelevant anyways.
Either way, it definitely needs a recap.
I found that removing "sml_" from the file name of the jpg linked to in the first post, you can view the full sized image. (I'm guessing the "sml_" is the naming convention that this forum uses for auto generated thumbnails on image attachments)
It's not using the expand in the same window/tab feature that this forum has since this is just standard IMG BBCode. It will be up for the original poster to fix it in his original post.
I suppose I could download it and reupload it to my own file attachment space, but I'm too lazy for that right now.
As for the issue at hand. I would guess the hard-drive swap wouldn't have made a difference. Not sure how the older power supplies worked, but the motherboard is probably on it's own 5v/12v rail. So a defective part on that rail would mean changes to the devices plugged into the molex connector may not have as big in impact on your issue since the PDS slot and anything else to do with the motherboard is on a separate rail then the molex connector for your hard-drive.
Unlike PCs, these old Macs used floppy drives with power provided by the motherboard. (as far as I'm aware anyway, I don't recall seeing a separate power cable last time I opened up my SE)
So you could run it with the floppy unplugged to see if it has an impact on your issue.
Then again, the age of the machine and the PSU means everything is probably on a single rail. Then I guess the PDS card was just pulling more current then your old hard-drive was so the swap made no difference.
But if it does have a separate rail, then perhaps your SCSI2SD actually compounded the problem if you had it powered from termination power instead of using the molex connector to power it. But you didn't say, so that may be irrelevant anyways.
Either way, it definitely needs a recap.
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TimHD
Well-known member
Just revisiting this thread...
I managed to acquire a 'new' (ie replacement stock) tested PSU / A/B for my Mac SE/30 and the issue persists! (So 2 x SE/30 PSUs / A/Bs get same result. )
As noted before, I have installed an Asanté MacCon IIsi/SE/30 PDS ethernet card (zippy.kicks-ass.org:9997/images/asante-maccon-se30.jpg) set with correct default jumper setting (these were so that the card can have video cards like radius pivots installed at the same time) see page 2-19 (http://www.asante.com/downloads/legacy/mcmlrb.pdf).
Given the machine boots up and works 'fine' but the display seems to be dropping bits of the video (vertical black lines), I wonder if there's some issues with the video pass through circuitry that enables those extra video cards?
Anyone here with experience repairing these kinds of cards (ie recapping and checking traces/circuitry related to the video)?
I managed to acquire a 'new' (ie replacement stock) tested PSU / A/B for my Mac SE/30 and the issue persists! (So 2 x SE/30 PSUs / A/Bs get same result. )
As noted before, I have installed an Asanté MacCon IIsi/SE/30 PDS ethernet card (zippy.kicks-ass.org:9997/images/asante-maccon-se30.jpg) set with correct default jumper setting (these were so that the card can have video cards like radius pivots installed at the same time) see page 2-19 (http://www.asante.com/downloads/legacy/mcmlrb.pdf).
Given the machine boots up and works 'fine' but the display seems to be dropping bits of the video (vertical black lines), I wonder if there's some issues with the video pass through circuitry that enables those extra video cards?
Anyone here with experience repairing these kinds of cards (ie recapping and checking traces/circuitry related to the video)?
TimHD
Well-known member
Here's the image link again, hopefully it works this time...
https://68kmla.org/forums/uploads/gallery/album_108/gallery_5459_108_1856616.jpg
(Interestingly, I just noticed this when checking the link, it only affects the background image, not the MAC OS loading pic or the Extensions Icons! Different part of video memory or something????)
Weird!!!!
https://68kmla.org/forums/uploads/gallery/album_108/gallery_5459_108_1856616.jpg
(Interestingly, I just noticed this when checking the link, it only affects the background image, not the MAC OS loading pic or the Extensions Icons! Different part of video memory or something????)
Weird!!!!
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apm
Well-known member
If the logic board hasn't been recapped, this is probably a straightforward caps issue. Though the ethernet card may be the trigger, maybe loading down a failing trace on the logic board, I wouldn't be surprised if the real fault is on the logic board itself.
Vertical stripes are often UE8 (shift register) related. Looking carefully at the image, there are bands of 7 normal pixels followed by 1 faulty one going across the screen, except for the very last stripe which is the full 8 pixels wide. You can also see some subtle distortion (extra black pixels) within the MacOS section. The pattern seems to be that within the affected column, a pixel is black either if it is supposed to be, OR if the pixel immediately to its right is black.
I'm not exactly sure what would cause that but I'd guess something around the control lines for UE8 (e.g. pins 1, 9, 15) as opposed to the data lines from the VRAM. I doubt the VRAM itself is faulty since the last stripe comes out correctly. The fault could also be in the chips that drive UE8, such as UG7 and UG8. But if the caps are original there's not a lot of point in speculating further until they're replaced and the board cleaned.
Vertical stripes are often UE8 (shift register) related. Looking carefully at the image, there are bands of 7 normal pixels followed by 1 faulty one going across the screen, except for the very last stripe which is the full 8 pixels wide. You can also see some subtle distortion (extra black pixels) within the MacOS section. The pattern seems to be that within the affected column, a pixel is black either if it is supposed to be, OR if the pixel immediately to its right is black.
I'm not exactly sure what would cause that but I'd guess something around the control lines for UE8 (e.g. pins 1, 9, 15) as opposed to the data lines from the VRAM. I doubt the VRAM itself is faulty since the last stripe comes out correctly. The fault could also be in the chips that drive UE8, such as UG7 and UG8. But if the caps are original there's not a lot of point in speculating further until they're replaced and the board cleaned.
apm
Well-known member
UE8 is a surface-mount chip which is located roughly between the large capacitor C2 and the crystal Y2. It's a common victim of cap goo, which can rot out the connections inside the chip. Since the video problem only affects a single bit where the VRAM is loaded a byte at a time, it suggests replacing UE8 as a starting point. But it's by no means the only possible problem.
The SE/30 schematics I have supposedly have 9 pages, but the 9th page is missing. Apparently pins 1 and 9 of UE8 (labelled "PU2") connect somewhere on page 9 but I don't know what's on that page, or if it has anything to do with the PDS slot.
The only signal I can see which is on the PDS slot and the video circuitry is NUBUS/ which is pin C2 on the PDS connector (that's the inside row, 2nd pin from the front, near the ROM SIMM). NUBUS/ also connects to pin 6 of UE7 which is involved in video generation, but I'm not sure of its role. The pin is an output from the logic board, but I suppose if it somehow got shorted on the card, it could create weird behaviour in the video circuitry. That's just speculation though. Without knowing what it does it's hard to say whether it would produce this specific effect on the screen.
Does the ethernet card work by the way? I would imagine most things that would disrupt the logic board would also stop the card from working. Do you have access to a different SE/30 to try the card with, or an oscilloscope?
The SE/30 schematics I have supposedly have 9 pages, but the 9th page is missing. Apparently pins 1 and 9 of UE8 (labelled "PU2") connect somewhere on page 9 but I don't know what's on that page, or if it has anything to do with the PDS slot.
The only signal I can see which is on the PDS slot and the video circuitry is NUBUS/ which is pin C2 on the PDS connector (that's the inside row, 2nd pin from the front, near the ROM SIMM). NUBUS/ also connects to pin 6 of UE7 which is involved in video generation, but I'm not sure of its role. The pin is an output from the logic board, but I suppose if it somehow got shorted on the card, it could create weird behaviour in the video circuitry. That's just speculation though. Without knowing what it does it's hard to say whether it would produce this specific effect on the screen.
Does the ethernet card work by the way? I would imagine most things that would disrupt the logic board would also stop the card from working. Do you have access to a different SE/30 to try the card with, or an oscilloscope?
Elfen
Well-known member
This is not a UE8 problem as the icons and the splash page is not effected. It it were a UE8 problem, then it would everywhere, including the icons and the splash page.
Q: let it boot and see what the desktop looks like and send a pic of that. see if you can change the desktop and post results.
Q: let it boot and see what the desktop looks like and send a pic of that. see if you can change the desktop and post results.
TimHD
Well-known member
Elfen, I booted it up and played with a few desktops (white is white, single pixels on white becomes a few pixels wide on white etc. Vertical Stripes has no echo until you move it so that it lines up with the 7th pixel, then it goes 2 pixels wide like the desktop. Image is pre-move (you can see some of the text in window being distorted).
I think the comment made earlier picked this up (i.e. only black pixels in the 7th column of 8 pixels are repeated as black):
Given this seems to be system wide, I suspect then the MacCon card (which is designed to allow pass thru and video card be attached) has either bad wiring or bad capacitors (?) that is impacting the video, or is it possible that the load the card creates is straining an (almost failing) motherboard chip e.g. UE8?.
Can anyone fix this (whether it be the card wiring/capacitors or motherboard capacitors)?
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apm
Well-known member
It looks like that image didn't post correctly (same problem as the first post). Can you repost the link to the larger version? A high-res image of the MacCon card would be interesting too.
And sorry to repeat myself, but does the ethernet card work? If it does that narrows down the space of things that might be wrong.
And sorry to repeat myself, but does the ethernet card work? If it does that narrows down the space of things that might be wrong.
TimHD
Well-known member
Wow - what's the go with the images on here! Can't you see anything? I followed the upload steps in My Gallery, including 'Review and Publish' and the images are supposed to be 'Public'... How are you supposed to insert images into your responses then!!???
In my post editor, right now, I can see a 'My Media' button or a [ ] (polaroid/phot image) or links..
Using My Media, have selected these ones..
The Polaroid seems to generate an error -not allowed here (so why have a button!)
Here's a cut n paste of a link from when I am in my gallery, and select see all sizes, and select large for the front image!!
https://68kmla.org/forums/index.php?/gallery/sizes/764-maccon-30iet-front/large/
https://68kmla.org/forums/index.php?/gallery/sizes/765-maccon-30iet-backside-of-card/large/
In my post editor, right now, I can see a 'My Media' button or a [ ] (polaroid/phot image) or links..
Using My Media, have selected these ones..
The Polaroid seems to generate an error -not allowed here (so why have a button!)
Here's a cut n paste of a link from when I am in my gallery, and select see all sizes, and select large for the front image!!
https://68kmla.org/forums/index.php?/gallery/sizes/764-maccon-30iet-front/large/
https://68kmla.org/forums/index.php?/gallery/sizes/765-maccon-30iet-backside-of-card/large/
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TimHD
Well-known member
The Asante Network Card works fine, on the Internet with OpenTransport 1.1.2, just the vertical lines in the earlier image. As the issue only comes up when the card is in the SE/30, I think the card is fine and it's gotta be a MB issue. While I had that professionally recapped and tested, I am starting to think something's gone wrong with a video chip or vram (UE8 keeps getting a mention??).
Is there any way I can test UE8 or the VRAM? What do I need?
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