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3D Print Replica HD 20 SC Enclosure?

Cory5412

Daring Pioneer of the Future
Staff member
But any case would need to go with the RetroMac Flow IMO.
Legit question: Why?  (And/Or: What do you consider to be "the RetroMac Flow")

None of the wifi bridges "look the part", the FloppyEmu doesn't try to hide what it is. Why would a SCSI2SD run externally (which is currently a niche solution anyway) need to be any different? Plus there's things like VGA adapters we've been using for literally 20+ years to run these machines with modern displays, and the new work on reverse ADB adapters to make newer keyboards and mice work, plus the discussion about modern graphics card implementations.

As far as I can tell, using SCSI2SDs externally is fairly uncommon, so there's not a particularly huge incentive to build a dedicated case for them. My ideas here were mainly about things that could be done to make building this case easier, but I probably misread intentions on SCSI2SD usage.

 

Trash80toHP_Mini

NIGHT STALKER
I've hated everything that pushed the Mac (or any computer) farther from a vertical surface than absolutely necessary in every instance from day one. The only thing worse than an inline VGA Adapter is that hellucious x100 Video port's adapter cable KLUGE from Apple! Heck. I prefer RA power cords where they'll push the damn Mac back a little further to clear a bit of work surface. That one got lost somewhere in the Classic Mac shuffle and shouldn't have.

Putting everything you've mentioned into a single case with connections for straight cables to plug in at every point of the compass so as to be parallel to the backplane for connecting to anything outside the box and with pigtail RA/Straight cables to head into the box would be fabulous. One inch space from backplane to wall would be the Holy Grail or Peripheraldom. :approve:

 

Cory5412

Daring Pioneer of the Future
Staff member
Ah - That's a different kind of preference than what I had been imagining.

I was not, just for the record, intending to suggest hanging a SCSI2SD directly off the SCSI port on the back of a Mac. I haven't actually seen one of the new 5.1s in action, are they wired that way? Does the FloppyEmu hang out that way? I had been under the impression those were wired with a relatively slim ribbon cable.

Regarding cabling - I don't disagree, but it's funny you single out power cables, because in the '90s almost every Apple cable was longer, even some of the ADB cables.

I also get a little bit of enjoyment out of the thought because a frequent comparison I see is between Apple's lightning cable and, say, the PB1x0/QT1x0 power brick, with the implication that Apple made better cables in the '90s.

Regarding PowerMac X100 mess: It's even worse if you have a DOS-equipped 6100, and it's even worse than that if you have a DOS 6100 and also an AudioVision. There are a handfull of pictures of on the Internet, it's basically the DOS dongle, plus the HDI45 to DB15 adapter, then the everything-to-HD45 adapter, and then the actual HDI45 display connector.  and the AudioVision's display cable is exactly as fat as you think it is, which means there will be a lot of strain if any of this hangs unsupported off the back of a table.

The other thing to consider though is that most Macs (all minitowers, almost all of the desktops, perhaps save the 630/6200) vent their heat backward. Most computer manuals recommend six inches of room at the back, which is generally enough even for the most gnarly of adapter combinations and/or biggest and least flexible connections (AudioVision/HDI45, SCSI, PowerBook video adapters, Apple's own video connectors in the '80s and '90s, etc.) I normally get away with less, but I'm also not overclocking or loading my old Macs down with multiple disks or lots of high powered NuBus cards. If I had a 950 or IIfx with a lot of the high end upgrades like Rockets or Symbolics hardware, accelerated graphics cards, etc, I would give it a lot of breathing room.

 

Cory5412

Daring Pioneer of the Future
Staff member
Anyway, my thought about an easy SCSI2SD box was absolutely a box with a big open hole you can route a scsi cable and a phone charger through. You cuold back that directly up to the wall, but I know of no SCSI cables that would let you have the Mac it was connected to under two or three inches from whatever surface was behind the machine.

This is, again, unrelated, but I typically run my tables about 2-3 inches in front of the actual wall, so a relatively unladen, say, compact Mac without a SCSI connection would be able to sit directly lined up to the back of the table -- but I've also long given up on tables that aren't big enough to house a computer.

 
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Trash80toHP_Mini

NIGHT STALKER
Side note: it was the ridiculous cables for hooking the FDD and SCSI peripherals up to my remaindered, but brand spanking new to me PowerBook 100 that made me loose my schiznit. :p

 

Trash80toHP_Mini

NIGHT STALKER
@PotatoFi Ya got SC yet? When it comes in be sure to go by the ServiceSource and remove the lid VERY carefully. I snapped a side clip on the AppleCD SC the first time I cracked it, so to speak. HD20 is fine, but I've only opened it twice and closed it but once. Since then I've left it pop topped with just the front edge aligned so it looks like it's buttoned up sitting way up high on the display. I set up all kinds of crap in the base unit hooked up to the PSU and for setting up HDDs out of box in general.

You've got a 9x9 table right? Printing scaled models seems the way to go. Maybe scale it down from 5.25 to 3.5 form factor for prototyping? One of the little power bricks that come with cheap USB/IDE/SATA adapters would snuggle right down into the PSU nook in that size model and DB-25 scales nicely down from Centronics-50 as well.

 

PotatoFi

Well-known member
@PotatoFi Ya got SC yet? When it comes in be sure to go by the ServiceSource and remove the lid VERY carefully. I snapped a side clip on the AppleCD SC the first time I cracked it, so to speak. HD20 is fine, but I've only opened it twice and closed it but once.
Not yet, I'll post an update when it comes in.

You've got a 9x9 table right?
My build envelope is 9.84 x 8.3 x 8 in, which means I'll have to do at least a 2-piece print (probably 3). When the hard drive gets here, I will start to make design decisions.

 

Trash80toHP_Mini

NIGHT STALKER
My build envelope is 9.84 x 8.3 x 8 in, which means I'll have to do at least a 2-piece print (probably 3)
Yah, that's what I thought. That's what got me thinking you should design to convenient modules for production at full size, but do your initial prototyping at 80%. Someone with a full scale capable printer is bound to jump in to help. Any measurement takeofff from the prototypes are straight up 125% multiples back to norm. That's one of my favorite conversion, near lossless pairs for going the scored cardboard prototype from letter.legal size PDFs.

Doing it that way should save on time, money and hair loss over the course of the project. [:p]

 

maceffects

Well-known member
The drive enclosure should arrive there by the end of the week, don't worry guys :) .  I agree that a scale prototype would be best.  Once it is refined enough and if the OP wants, I will have a SLA clear printed case produced. 

 

PotatoFi

Well-known member
Ok, drive received. Looks to be in nice shape. Sadly it did not include the correct SCSI cable so I can't test it, but it did include a terminator. But... that's not what we're here for. It is a bit deeper than I thought... so I'd have to get really creative to print full-scale on my Prusa, but I have some ideas. I can't tackle it right away, maybe this weekend?

 

maceffects

Well-known member
Printing in sections and then bonding is a good option. For my first case prototype I printed the rear bucket in 4 sections then bonded them together and it worked quite well given the limited print area. 

 
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Trash80toHP_Mini

NIGHT STALKER
I pulled mine apart to post a pic of the wiring harness at the back of the PSU for someone with the tape drive who's using it for SCSI2SD. I think I'll start a new thread for that teardown/mod and for a few suggestions related to your pronect. Still loving my CD-SC riff on your project though. Using a standard trayloader design opens up an interesting possibility for you SCSI2SD lovers. Looks to me like I can hack an IDE Trayloader for the tray as your SCSI2SD carrier. No need for power, poke something in the eject hole and it pops open so you can pull the tray all the way out, unhook the unit if needs be for removal or just tilt it up change the SD card or hook up a USB cable? Dunno not my cuppa joe yet, but I thought I'd mention it.

The first version's too shallow for the SCSI2SD:View attachment 27602

Still think you should be designing to full size and doing your prototypes at 80% if that'll fit. You can recoup filament development costs as folks will buy as many as you make for SCSI2SD and other project boxes that don't need to be full size ZFP Compact Mas support platforms. Someone will jump in to print the full size prototypes for you when the cute lil' ones work to your satisfaction. [:)]

 

Trash80toHP_Mini

NIGHT STALKER
Double post, the other window is still hanging. ::) @maceffects for a clear version of this case you'll have to come up with the HD-SC correct looking stuffings. Printed 5.25" HDD and PSU project boxes for inside could be great projects for other 3D modeler to play around with for the clear version while the Spud does his thing.

Have fun with this, I'll try to stay strictly on topic from now on in here.

View attachment 27602

 
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Trash80toHP_Mini

NIGHT STALKER
Here are a couple of pics showing details of the CDSC-SCSI2SD thought process that are directly applicable to you prototyping:

Inverted-SCSI2SD-escape-Hatch.JPG

This was very disappointing at first, ther's only about 7mm of the 15mm required under an Optical/Bernoulli/SqQuest iteration of the HDSC project. But that led me back to my inverted sub-basement IIsi PDS card installation ploy. That strategy almost certainly requires removal of a section of the case bottom for sleeping bat headroom for the two PDS cards.

Fabulous notion for the SCSI2SD-SC however! No room for the armored cover on the bottom escape hatch of an armored fighting vehicle, but none would be needed. An access opening in the floor of your 20SC build for the SCSI2SD would allow full access to the SCSI2SD for card changes/USB hookup and removal of the unit without cracking the case. [;)]

Signpainter Scaled MiniSC case prototype print illustrations.

20SC-Signpainterscaling-00.JPG

Every inch represents 10%.

20SC-Signpainterscaling-01.JPG

Prototyping your parts in one piece at 70% yields a series of 3.5" MiniPeripheral-SC cases we can buy from you to "Back" development by purchasing new toys! If it doesn't need to support a Compact, there's your MiniSD-SCSI2SD case in a 6.5" width format with full access bottom section. putting a hole in the bottom of each 70% prototype would save on filament for each iteration. Sign me up for miniature Proto20SC.00. :approve:

edit: black box has power plug socket at one end and MOLEX on that cable and are included with inexpensive bi-directional SATA/IDE converters.

 
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Trash80toHP_Mini

NIGHT STALKER
OK, I'll drop the push for a scaled prototyping approach right after this. [;)]

Apple-MiniSC7-SCSI2SD-0-00.jpg

View attachment SCSI2SD-hatch-20SC-70pct-00.PDF

Print the PDF unscaled  and lay your SCSI2SD down on the paper. Nice box, not too little, not too big and it'll hold the PSU above, a 3.5" HDD and a fan in lieu of SCSI2SD. I'm liking that escape hatch in the bottom of the hull approach more and more. I'll make my own thread soon for tangential discussions and for hacking the real deal.

edit: forgot to mention folding up the attached side panels, but that's pretty obvious I would think.

 
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PotatoFi

Well-known member
@PotatoFi did you have a chance to get in some quality playtime with the HD 20SC this weekend or did you make time for much higher quality play with the family?
Great question, I was just headed over here to give a quick "update"! Sadly, some other things demanded my attention this week, including some urgent maintenance issues on the house and as you guessed, family time. I will admit that I did print this potato:

photo_2019-05-12 20.44.52.jpeg

But, I have received the HD 20SC. It's in great shape, but sadly I can't see if it works because I don't have the proper cable. 

As for first impressions: printable, but it's actually deeper than the Mac by an inch or so (didn't know this!) so I can't print the top and bottom as one piece on my printer. Still, I think we can work around this. Perhaps for "full size" versions, it's actually only the depth of the base of the compact Mac? And I love the ideas about scaling it down, making it modular. Looking forward to getting to work on this project. Soon... real soon!

 

Trash80toHP_Mini

NIGHT STALKER
Rough ACSII art representation of hair dryer process bent clip-side-top-side-clip single part print. Did you say the outer surface to platen orientation was your preference? If so, the art for the pre-bent print is inverted. A series of properly spaced, proper depth V notches will result in the desired corner radius. That's the way you bend plywood around a corner, but with a series of saw cuts in place of V grooves.

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For a plexi fab with snow white line: the V grooves would be done first along with registration holes and lap joint flats if necessary. The workpiece would then be flipped onto a jig for line detailing and lap joint flats. Again, the number of V grooves and spacing determine bend radius. With plexi you get heat gun . . . or bending wire setup.

 
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