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3D Print Replica HD 20 SC Enclosure?

PotatoFi

Well-known member
@PotatoFi Sorry about the thread hijacking!  Sometimes, I get a bit carried away with projects.  We sent our chat to PM already.  If you do decide you need an HD SC to model, please let me know and I'll make sure that happens for you.  
On one hand... no worries. I'm stoked about the ongoing progress with the PDS cards. But on the other hand... this branch in conversation has rendered the first page of this thread unreadable. Creating a new thread to discuss that would be beneficial to everyone, I strongly encourage you guys to do that to benefit your project.

@maceffects I actually do have an HD20SC and an HD20 (which was working as of maybe 3 years ago), either of which I could volunteer for being modeled, if anyone needs.
To both @maceffects and @CC_333, these offers are MUCH appreciated. But rather than ship them and risk damage, what if we just started with measurements? If you have some digital calipers and are willing to spend some time getting measurements and photos of the case, that would be hugely helpful. I think that the exterior of the case would be the first priority for now. Basically all I can do right now is reference blurry photos, which are surprisingly far and few between. Here's a VERY rough first look at a model:

Screen Shot 2019-05-01 at 10.19.07 AM.png

Things I'm looking for are total dimensions, dimensions of fillets around the edges, depth of grooves, width of grooves, distance between grooves, etc. Any information would be super helpful.

 

maceffects

Well-known member
@PotatoFi I don't have a caliper handy, unfortunately.  I think if packaged properly, sending one would be the best option.  I'd be happy to cover @CC_333's postage and packing costs to make that happen. If I have one I'm sure its buried right now. 

@Cory5412 yes, if you could start a new topic "Custom Clear Hard Drive Lids" I would appreciate it to help clean up this thread.  Thanks @Trash80toHP_Mini for the idea!

 

Trash80toHP_Mini

NIGHT STALKER
While you're at the tangential readjustment, please have this thread moved to Hacks & Development where it belongs. ;) Much easier to find there and goes hand in hand with the 3D Printed Objects thread.

To reiterate oP's point in first reply, the CD 20SC would be correct Snow White Design Language for SE and SE/30. For 128k-Plus all you need to do is delete the grooves. Don't wanna even talk about the Espresso curve infested Classic, but that could be a second very closely intertwined related tangent to the IP.

For that first intertwined tangent: with a bit of planning up front your design could be far more versatile if you artistically interpret the 20SC a bit rather than slavishly copy it. By moving the Lid/Case line slightly (if at all?) the same model can be outfitted as a TrayLoader interpreted AppleCD SC. If nothing else, adding the Activity/Power LED setup from that box alone would be a huge improvement to the stock 20SC, but my SE/30 and SE could definitely use a CD. :approve:

View attachment 27578

For your first dimension, the Snow White Grooves and case joint appear to be on the close order of 1.5mm. I'll have to sample it many more times with the digipers more correctly squared up to the case, but I wouldn't bother. Source some rectangular LEDs and design from that dimension. That will be close enough that no one will be able to spot any slight width difference in the Snow White lines of an SE/SE/30 as they're perpendicular to the lines on the sides of the 20SC. Box, digipers and rudimentary back to "school drafting kit" are heading to work with me in a few. More to follow. Iso is very cool, but plan views would be extremely helpful in harvesting the info you need from the gang. You can witness line the dimensions and radii you need tagged with _?_  and update the views with the dimensions as they come in.

So far the spec has been for a SCSI2SD. PSU or lump-onna-rope and a whole lotta empty air. Cubic is a terrible thing to waste.

BTW: Fabulous rack brackets. :approve:

 
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SE30_Neal

Well-known member
@PotatoFi Printing the case would be a difficult task and would require support structures.  If you didn't spend several thousand on the 3d printer, it will probably not be high enough resolution to do a good print.  Moreover, matching platinum or any Apple color would be hard both from the perspective of filament and production. 

However, if you can get produce STP/STEP files, I could contact my prototype producer and make some clear case versions.  I'd bet that the two molds (if produced) would be around $12,000-$15,000.  That would be doubtful for production, but who knows.  Those HD20 SC's are often is sad brittle condition. 
Potato could you not make it in sections; glue, sand then spray to match? 

 

Trash80toHP_Mini

NIGHT STALKER
He said he didn't like to paint printed parts earlier on.

I didn't get a chance to play with the toys at work tonight, so I did a bit here after work. The PDF can be opened in Illustrator to read out real measurements for the parts. The lid joint drops down into the case. Probably better to wait until I get more measurements to plug in like the roundover radii. I'll rummage around for a rectangular LED in the AM or look on eBay. That would be he easy way in.

AppleCD_SC-20SC-00-000.jpg

View attachment AppleCD_SC-20SC-00-000.PDF

Details on the size of the opening are in the PDF. It's a hybrid using the wider caddy door opening and the bare bones height of a trayloader's tray only w/o the overlapped front panel which cuts the height of the tray/opening down from 17mm to 13mm. Caddy opening is 10mm high, so I think this is a good balance. Using a stock trayloader drawer/face wouldn't do at all. Much too high and too narrow an aspect ratio. This works for me. Two LEDs on the AppleCD SC are are better than one on the 20SC and the RED one will make your SCSI2SD go faster. [:p]

Feets are about right, but the plastic bits next to them were only eyeballed. Button's 12mm from the Q950 bezel as is the rectangular emergency stick something in me hole. The button on the Caddy Loader in my hand is rectangular, I think I like it better.

I've never been a big fan of the detailing and controls of the Snow White chin of my AppleCD SC. This one I like, stripes on the sides are plenty.

 

PotatoFi

Well-known member
I think sanding and painting 3D prints takes more patience that I've got. On top of that, the "natural" look of 3D printed parts just doesn't bother me - I think the look is pretty cool. I have 3D printed stuff all over my house! But hey, if this works, and someone wants to take a crack at sanding and printing their own case, I would be more than happy to print one up for them!

@maceffects is sending a hard drive my way, so I can get to work on modeling.

As for @Trash80toHP_Mini's ideas have me thinking about modularity. Trash80, lemme get the original model made, and let's see what we can do about making it modular. If you could drop a CD drive in there, or if you could drop a bracket for a SCSI2SD, that would be pretty cool! Getting the initial model done and printed as a proof of concept is the first step. The big, BIG challenge is seeing if this thing is even printable. We'll see what happens!

 

Cory5412

Daring Pioneer of the Future
Staff member
On a regular/personal note, this is an interesting idea.

I'll admit, I would be tempted to suggest that we should think about whether or not there's another viable donor for SCSI enclosures for SCSI2SDs (Zip drives?) or if it would be more reasonable to build something a little more sized to how big the SCSI2SD actually is.

That said, I 100% understand the appeal of the Apple "SC" enclosures.

If I were designing something new to build, perhaps just build it like a generic plastic SCSI case, suitable for a SCSI2SD, CD-ROM, SQ, or whatever.

The biggest thing I would think would be a challenge would be sourcing the needed SCSI bits, without cannibalizing another case, at which point, from a practical perspective, why not just clean and use that case.

 

Trash80toHP_Mini

NIGHT STALKER
Tangent time? [;)] There is such a thing and it might be doable for use across a wide range of Macs.

The SCSI bits are the easiest thing about this project. The pair shipped free for $9.98 from Amazon.

51ZZ5TtFmdL.jpg.9585aacb3be541fa315668f28cbd8752.jpg


One or three of the very inexpensive IDC female header connectors can go on the ribbon cable inside. ID's and Termination to be handled at the installed device level.

To do a generic case, print only front bezel and backplane for fitting to an available switchbox can, project box or other kind of off the shelf metal(?) container that's set up for being stuffed and having its ends plugged up.

 

Trash80toHP_Mini

NIGHT STALKER
Trash80, lemme get the original model made, and let's see what we can do about making it modular. If you could drop a CD drive in there, or if you could drop a bracket for a SCSI2SD, that would be pretty cool! Getting the initial model done and printed as a proof of concept is the first step. The big, BIG challenge is seeing if this thing is even printable. We'll see what happens!
Cool, both my of drives are handy on the display. I'll keep measuring, left the printouts at work so I can't use the gauge I set up to test my 1.75mm roundover radius guesstimation. Top view is the same radius on the corners more or less. Front to back looks to be 266mm. If you pick my PDFs apart in AI you'll have all the measurements you asked for, but I'm really curious as to how closely our measurements will wind up being when you get me's case into your hands.

There looks to be more than enough clearance underneath a CD for your SCSI2SD.

 

Cory5412

Daring Pioneer of the Future
Staff member
That's SCSI wiring. How about ID selection? Are those apparatus still generally available?

 

Trash80toHP_Mini

NIGHT STALKER
ID selection on enclosures is a nice feature, not a necessity. That's why I said  ID's and Termination to be handled at the installed device level, especially in the case of having SCSI2SD AND an optical drive inside. You could do jumper blocks for both  settings on the backplane easily enough, but confusing and featuritis. KISS is the operating principle here. Anyone using a hacker oriented enclosure (SCSI2SD is an elegant hack even if it's now considered standard equipment) ought to be up on how to configure SCSI devices on both ends of the chain, internal to the Mac and an external chain/basic enclosure.

I posted the link to a pair of connectors not just because they cost less than singletons, but because provision for an external terminator would be a requirement for a not-end-of-chain enclosure and KISS principle adherence.

P1010070.JPG

In this shot the assembly might be more clearly illustrated than fully in position. It was already like this for playing with SCA drives and such. I'd use the ferrite ring in a build. Though it's probably not a necessity it clearly falls within the class of best practices.

Note the raised platform for the 1/2 Height 20MB HDD, it provides airflow across the bottom of the drive. Neat design feature. Is the original form factor drive set up the same way or did it use a 3/4 Heignt MFM Drive?

That platform's just about where you'd install an optical drive, so the cubic underneath is all gravy for the SCSI2SD installation. That's why I suggested setting the case up as dual-purpose right from the get go. SCSI2SD mounting points and Optical Drive mounts as above should be provided for in the very first prototype IMHO. We don't need worry about the height of the supports, just aim a tad low for using spacers to determine final spec. :approve:

My other suggestion would be designing to use of an available PSU. It would be really nice to have a single switch on the enclosure provide passthru power to the SE/SE/30 on a short monitor cable for turning the Compact on from the switch on the enclosure. If a UL approved enclosure PSU with a power passthru can be sourced, I'd suggest aiming for that in the initial prototype would be also be advisable. Yes these features would complicate the initial design phase, but simultaneous design/prototyping would save a LOT of $$$$$$ overall. [:p]

As another initial prototype departure from the target design: dividing the case into a Mac II style frontspiece w/o chin, a bolt-up backplane and top/bottom sections might be a good idea? Once designed as standalone units, top/bottom sections would be set up in the form of a rectangular tube with cutaway tabs between for doing them in a single vertical print. That way the parts would be supporting each other. Full length tabs with score lines on both sides would probably be better for printing and even for separation?

 

Cory5412

Daring Pioneer of the Future
Staff member
You proably know this: SCSI2SD is unique-ish among SCSI devices in that you pre-configure it before you install it wherever it's going to go, it doesn't have jumpers. Additionally, SCSI2SD itself can emulate multiple devices if need be. I've never used this functionality, but it's possible to have it present as, say, a CD-ROM drive and two hard disks.

For everything else, if there was a source for those selectors, it would make re-configuring machines and moving devices around way more convenient.

That said, there's definitely a question about how much we need an Apple SC enclosure to be "original-like" if fewer and fewer users of SCSI-having Macs have a need to set up a big chain with several devices. For everything else, it kind of makes sense just to use the provided enclosure. If you go buy a 200MB 5.25 SyQuest drive off eBay for example, there's a reasonable chance it comes in the APS or PowerUser case it shipped with when new, such as https://www.ebay.com/itm/153436342461 (the 200MB drives in particular are actually frequently available bare, but you could slot it into the enclosure from a cd-rom drive or a 44mb drive.)

From a purely practical perspective, if the replica enclosure is being used to house a SCSI2SD, a small power supply (like, a cell phone charger), and the SCSI wiring are really all you need.

 

Trash80toHP_Mini

NIGHT STALKER
I  vaguely recall such things, but not really up on the SCSI2SD thing and won't be until I get the Fast/Narrow v6 or a later Fast/Wide version.

The biggest reason for using a takeoff on the HD 20SC is that a ZFP enclosure raises a Compact to a neck strain relieving, ergonomically correct CRT level on top of being reminiscent of POWER USER  8)

On the tangential SCSI2SD enclosure development front, gotta find the right attachment for what was to be my original suggestion, but here's one for SLA prototyping production. Only the cover panel would need to be printed, the balance of the build could be laser cut parts with the sides and bottom being one unit with two easily done bends:




 

Trash80toHP_Mini

NIGHT STALKER
BackPac/Bacster enclosure is almost perfect for installing a caddy loader in a clear case behind a clear SE/30 bucket. You'd need to internalize a higher capacity PSU for it to work, but mimicing a side-slot loading iMac with a caddy loader equipped SE/30 could be delicious.

Here's the serious suggestion I floated in the 3D Printed Objects thread some time ago.

View attachment 19876

Do it in a lower profile case to hide SCSI2SD behind the II/IIcx form factor?

</tangent>

 
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Cory5412

Daring Pioneer of the Future
Staff member
My thought for a SCSI2SD case would basically be something looking vaguely like the FloppyEmu case. Even the SCSI2SDv6 is small enough that a case can almost certainly be printed on a cheap home 3d printer easily, or be printed by a service and mailed out. I would be 100% unsurprised to find out there already is one.

If you wanted to go totally wild, you could model and build a replica of one of Apple's various 3.5" external drives.

I understand the appeal of ZFP drive enclosures, and sticking a SCSI2SD in one of the taller ones, such as Apple's, does solve a couple different problems, and produces a neat cohesive appearance. If it's easier and if the main goal is ergonomics, looks, and a SCSI2SD, a potential option is to just build the case and leave a big hole in the back to slide the scsi2sd into.

 

Trash80toHP_Mini

NIGHT STALKER
If you start a new thread for your alternate SCSI2SD case build tangent, I'll throw some graphics up. Clipper2SD would be the bomb. The last thing we need is a cabled DongleSD, but I like your notion for plugging the board into something. But any case would need to go with the RetroMac Flow IMO.

 
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