1400 keyboard connector pinout?

[Anonymous Freak]

Does anyone have the pinout for the internal keyboard connector on the PB1400?

The one that I had declared "dead" works just fine hooked up to external monitor and kb/mouse with the lid closed, it's only with the lid open that there are problems. (Which seems to negate its value as a 'mobile' machine.) I can get it to get through various stages of startup before it shuts down as if I had pushed the "On/Off" button. But with the lid closed, it ignores the internal keyboard, thereby ignoring that input.

I have tried to different keyboards, on two 1400's, and both work fine on one, and I see this behavior with both keyboards on the other. Which makes me wonder if the connector itself has a short in it. I don't see anything obvious, but would like to know if two pins are dedicated just to the on/off circuit. If so, I'll just disconnect 'em; and make do with using the power button on the back.

Also, it has the same symptoms even if I have *NO* internal keyboard plugged in. (Even with an external.)

(Bonus: If I get this figured out, then someone, instead of getting a 'dead' 1400c/166 will get a perfectly good 1400c/133.)

Finally, an update to my sales, I am taking machines in in half an hour for shipping estimates (and in one case, actual shipping.) This is, finally, certain.

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

Does anyone have the pinout for the internal keyboard connector on the PB1400?
The one that I had declared "dead" works just fine hooked up to external monitor and kb/mouse with the lid closed, it's only with the lid open that there are problems.

There isn't really a "pinout", as in signals, the 1400's KBD is a simple membrane/flex-circuit key-switch matrix that feeds directly into the controller on the MLB. It would seem to me that your problems lie within either the KBD controller or the Power Manager circuitry. I seriously doubt that hacking the KBD switch matrix connector would solve anything for you, especially sincet it exhibits the same behavior with no on-board keyboard installed.

Try re-setting the "Power Manager" and that may help, but it's likely your first diagnosis was correct.

Meanwhile, I'll try to find the 1400 KBD I opened up for fitting it to the (as yet of undetermined direction) PB100 hack. If I can find it, I'll let you know which connections are related to the power key, but they're not likely to be a dedicated connection. ISTR that there weren't all that many lines on the matrix halves, considering the number of keys.

Finally, an update to my sales, I am taking machines in in half an hour for shipping estimates (and in one case, actual shipping.) This is, finally, certain.

I'm looking forward to receiving your prices & shipping estimates!

 

[H3NRY]

Have you looked at the switch that tells the Mac when the lid is closed? That's often a reed switch and magnet. Reed switches have a tendency over time to get "sticky", and your 1400 may not know the lid is open, or it may be getting conflicting signals. You can sometimes unstick a switch by tapping in the vicinity or waving a magnet of opposite polarity near it. I don't know what kind of switch the 1400 uses, but a sticky switch certainly messed up my Wallstreet.

 

[Anonymous Freak]

Have you looked at the switch that tells the Mac when the lid is closed? That's often a reed switch and magnet. Reed switches have a tendency over time to get "sticky", and your 1400 may not know the lid is open, or it may be getting conflicting signals. You can sometimes unstick a switch by tapping in the vicinity or waving a magnet of opposite polarity near it. I don't know what kind of switch the 1400 uses, but a sticky switch certainly messed up my Wallstreet.

Yeah, I thought about that, but the fact that it only happens when the lid is open, never when it is closed lead me to believe it is not the lid-open sensor. (I actually originally titled this thread "1400 keyboard lid sensor location?" before deciding that wasn't it.)

I have verified on a second 1400 that when the lid is closed, it ignores keyboard input. This leads me to believe that it is definitely the keyboard or controller. The fact that it happens with two keyboards, and with no keyboard at all, further leads me to believe that it is either the physical connector, or somewhere in the firmware relating to the keyboard.

 

[Bunsen]

IIRC, the 1400 uses a plastic hook that pushes a switch inside the bottom case to sense lid closure, rather than a magnet and reed. Try poking something non-conductive in the hole and see if you can fool it that the lid is closed.

 

[Anonymous Freak]

IIRC, the 1400 uses a plastic hook that pushes a switch inside the bottom case to sense lid closure, rather than a magnet and reed. Try poking something non-conductive in the hole and see if you can fool it that the lid is closed.

Nope, it is not that.

Anyway, I found a NewerTech 603ev/183 upgrade, so I'm 'giving up' on the 1400c/166, and I have just installed the upgrade into my 1400c/133. It's all yours now, Strimkind!

So, at present, the laptop is in the following condition:

Apparently 100% functional motherboard with 16 MB onboard RAM (All rear-panel ports verified functional, both PC Card slots verified functional)

Good 603e/166 processor

16 MB Kingston RAM expansion

Video out card

Verified functional hard drive connector (but no hard drive included)

Verified functional battery bay (but no battery included; although if you really want, I can include a dead battery that claims to be full and charging when plugged in, but doesn't last even a fraction of a second when unplugged)

Verified functional drive bay (verified works with both original floppy drive and original 12x CD-ROM drive)

No major physical flaws (apparently got hit with some light paint spray droplets at some point, very far between, and easy to scrape off with a fingernail; hinge points in lid are starting to show signs of stress, with one stress fracture, but not crack, on one side; my 1400c/133 has noticeable cracks on both sides.)

Screen has no dead or stuck pixels that I could find.

Will include one clear "BookCover" in serviceable physical condition. (Has paint spray droplets, plus a bit of smudging; should clean off with some elbow grease.)

One flaw: If lid is open, it acts as if you are constantly pressing the on/off button on the keyboard. You can trick it into getting all the way to the desktop occasionally by messing with the keyboard and/or connector during boot; but within 15 seconds of getting to the desktop, it will shut itself off. Works flawlessly with lid closed on external display and external mouse/keyboard. I have not yet traced the exact source of the problem to its root. I'm 99% certain it is *NOT* the keyboard itself, since I swapped keyboards and the symptom stayed with the system, not the keyboard.

Hrm, upon finishing typing that, I realized I should have sent it to Strimkind by PM... I'll do that now, too.

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

Have you tried resetting the Power Manager? :?:

The power-on-off behavior you describe doesn't sound like it's necessarily keyboard related. There's next to nothing that could go wrong with that flex circuit connector, so my best guess is it's the IC/ASIC with the KBD controller on board or the Power Manager ASIC. Check the block diagrams in the service manual for clues as to what's going on and where!

 

[Anonymous Freak]

Have you tried resetting the Power Manager? :?:
The power-on-off behavior you describe doesn't sound like it's necessarily keyboard related. There's next to nothing that could go wrong with that flex circuit connector, so my best guess is it's the IC/ASIC with the KBD controller on board or the Power Manager ASIC. Check the block diagrams in the service manual for clues as to what's going on and where!

Yeah, tried resetting the power manager. No help. It has now gotten to the point where it's not worth my time. I'd rather send it off to someone with more time to work on it; or use it to repair another machine.

 

[Strimkind]

Yeah, tried resetting the power manager. No help. It has now gotten to the point where it's not worth my time. I'd rather send it off to someone with more time to work on it; or use it to repair another machine.

I'm not sure about more time to work on it, but it will definitely be of good use to fix up a gutted bottom case of a 1400cs that is sitting around with a few extra parts for my pimped 1400c.

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

I'm not sure about more time to work on it, but it will definitely be of good use to fix up a gutted bottom case of a 1400cs that is sitting around with a few extra parts for my pimped 1400c.

Go for it, comrade! }

 

[CJ_Miller]

If anybody gets around to mapping the key matrix and ribbon cable, I would be interested. If I am not mistaken, Apple still used ADB protocol in old Duos and PowerBooks, so I would not be surprised if the 1400 keyboard might be usable on another mac. I love the feel of it for typing, more so than any other Apple laptop I have tried. It would make a great mini-ADB keyboard for older macs.

 

[LCGuy]

The trouble with that however is that the required circuitry which adapts the keyboard to run on the ADB bus is built into the logic board. The only hope that you might have is if you were to adapt it to the controller board for a real ADB keyboard.

 

[Bunsen]

Notes towards that approach can be found here and here

 

[Osgeld]

I think it would be more interesting to convert it to USB (same thing, just new chip which can be found pretty much everywhere)

course I think old keyboards on new systems are just keen, ask my wife, she just loves listening to my IBM model M

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

While rummaging through my magic plastic shoe boxes™, for the IIfx/CD Tune-Up Post, I found my disassembled (imagine me having one of those : ) 1400 KBD! So while arranging for an FDHD -> ZIP File X-Fer, I set up a Scanner, just in case, while I was at it, [] ]'>

However, I've had my grubby lil' paws on my Ancient KBD Hackin" Binder recently and ISTR having done a color-coded matrix mapping of the KBD in question, at some point, back in the day.

So expect SOME kind of info to be posted within a day . . . or two . . . or three! [] ]'>

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

Found the KBD Hackin' NoteBook, but no joy, it was a PC Matrix I was working on for a Custom Layout USB KBD. :-/

Scanner's not up yet . . . : . . . so it's just piccies for now, enjoy!

Forgot about some of the details as well. :I The 1400's got a very interesting Flex Circuit Layout! It's all one piece and it folds back upon itself, looks like 11 signals make the 180 degree transition from top layer to bottom layer.

No, I'm NOT cuttin' mine up to scan it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! )

Figure out the general layout from the piccies. Then, when you think you've got it "right," buzz the connections with a continuity tester, on an unhacked 1400 KBD, to determine the accuracy of your matrix layout/pinout. [] ]'>