128k Mac Won't "Shut Down"

[Gorgonops]

So, wait, you're actually sticking a pin in the eject hole to "manually eject"?

 

[joethezombie]

I booted up my 128k from an external drive (A9M0106) using the MacWrite disk, System 2.0, Finder 4.1.  The shutdown command most definitely ejects the disk before restarting.  I can also eject the disk by choosing File -> Eject, no complaints from the system.

 

[Paralel]

Very interesting. I'm assuming yours has an internal drive? Maybe it has something to do with that? Maybe its an undocumented bug, no one ever tested the scenario in the 128k because they never thought anyone would run a Mac with an external drive and no internal drive?

 

[khannonnd]

Ok, so to test it, I re-connected the internal floppy drive to see if having it disconnected was the issue.  Its nonfunctioning (it just automatically ejects disks when one is inserted) so I still have to boot up from the external 800k drive.

Still will not give me the "It is now safe to turn off your macintosh" prompt and just restarts.  The 800k drive did *try* to eject the disk when it restarted, so the non-ejection issue could be a problem with the 800k drive.

I am still perplexed why this Mac, running System 2/Finder 4.1, just restarts automatically instead of shutting down...

 

[khannonnd]

Nope, I just tried a different 800k drive that I know ejects disks fine, and still no ejection.  Just restart + instaboot off the disk it didn't eject...

Maybe this is an issue with booting a Mac 128k off an 800k drive?  Does someone have a Mac 128k that they can boot off an external 800k drive and see what it does when you shut down?

Is it possible there is something wrong with the ROM in this machine?

 

[khannonnd]

So, wait, you're actually sticking a pin in the eject hole to "manually eject"?

Yes.  Here is my current situation:

(1) I have a Mac 128k with ROMs  342-0220-B/342-0221-B

(2) The internal floppy drive is non-functioning, so I removed it pending replacement.

(3) As a result, I can only use the machine using one of my two external 800k drives.  The machine boots fine into System 2.0/Finder 4.1 (using the stock disk that came with the machine).

(4) When I go to the "Shut Down" command under the "Special" menu, the computer instantly restarts and reloads the disk without ever ejecting it.

(5) Thus, I have been forced to just press the power button after the chime and then manually eject the disk with a paperclip from the 800k drive.

So far, I have tested whether it was the absence of the floppy drive by plugging in the 400k internal drive (but not using it).  The machine still did the same thing.

 

[unity]

It will not eject the 800k drive. The 128k original ROMS dont know how to trigger the drive to do so.

 

[khannonnd]

It will not eject the 800k drive. The 128k original ROMS dont know how to trigger the drive to do so.

Oh, well there is that problem!  Haha, thanks Unity!

Now I just need to figure out why it decides to auto-restart instead of shutting down!

 

[unity]

Cause it cant. There is no issue. Its doing what its designed to do.

 

[joethezombie]

But my external is an 800k drive, and it ejects? Sounds strange that 'Apple 3.5" External' (A9M0106) can eject but 'Macintosh 800k' (M0131) can not?

 

[khannonnd]

But my external is an 800k drive, and it ejects? Sounds strange that 'Apple 3.5" External' (A9M0106) can eject but 'Macintosh 800k' (M0131) can not?

And I did try it with both the A9M0106 and M0131 drives.

 

[Gorgonops]

That sounds fishy to me as well. The eject command is electrically the same on the 400 and 800k drives, and I likewise know that my 64k ROM 512K will eject the disk before rebooting if booted from an M0106. I can't boot with my particular M0131 because it has the earlier 800k mechanism that triggers the divide-by-zero Sad Mac bug in the 64k ROM. But if you have one with the later 800k mechanism that basically adds "noise" to the TACH line it should behave like an M0106.

 

[Gorgonops]

Honestly I wonder if something is borked with your disk controller. Can you swap disks at all? (IE, does soft eject EVER work?) Again, correct me if I'm wrong here, but on a Mac you should be able to drag the SYSTEM DISK to trash to eject it and put in a program disk; doing so creates a sort of "phantom" alias to the ejected system disk to basically remind you that the system will ask for it back later. If this wasn't possible a single drive Mac would essentially be useless.

 

[khannonnd]

Honestly I wonder if something is borked with your disk controller. Can you swap disks at all? (IE, does soft eject EVER work?) Again, correct me if I'm wrong here, but on a Mac you should be able to drag the SYSTEM DISK to trash to eject it and put in a program disk; doing so creates a sort of "phantom" alias to the ejected system disk to basically remind you that the system will ask for it back later. If this wasn't possible a single drive Mac would essentially be useless.

So I put in the system disk and then tried the "Eject Disk" option under the "file" menu.  The icon of the disk looked like it was ejected (i.e., the shadow-ed outline of a disk) for about 3 seconds but then reloaded without the drive doing anything.  This happens both with the original disk and a copy of the system disk I made.

 

[Gorgonops]

Yeah, so there's definitely something wrong. I seem to recall from another thread that you have a Plus, do the drives behave properly on that? (If you disconnect any SCSI hard drive a Plus should behave essentially identically to a 128k if you boot it with your System 2.0 floppies, does it eject the disks before rebooting?)

 

[khannonnd]

Yeah, so there's definitely something wrong. I seem to recall from another thread that you have a Plus, do the drives behave properly on that? (If you disconnect any SCSI hard drive a Plus should behave essentially identically to a 128k if you boot it with your System 2.0 floppies, does it eject the disks before rebooting?)

That is a great question -- I will test it.  I know that the Plus under System 6.0.8 ejects disks out of the external 800k drives, no problem.  I will report back tomorrow!

 

[khannonnd]

Yeah, so there's definitely something wrong. I seem to recall from another thread that you have a Plus, do the drives behave properly on that? (If you disconnect any SCSI hard drive a Plus should behave essentially identically to a 128k if you boot it with your System 2.0 floppies, does it eject the disks before rebooting?)

Ah HA!  I tried booting off the same system disk from the same drive, but attached to my Mac Plus.  It did the same thing -- no ejection of the disk, and auto-restart.  

If I boot the Mac Plus off the HD20 with System 6.0.8, when I shut it down it ejects any disk in the external drive and gives me the "It is now safe to turn off your Macintosh" prompt.

So it must just be an early system/finder thing with external drives...

 

[Paralel]

Interesting. Sounds like some damage specific to that disk or disk/drive combo. Have you tried a different disc?

 

[Gorgonops]

If you boot that old disk in the Plus' internal drive does it eject the disk before restarting? Again, to be clear, this behavior is by no means normal.

 

[khannonnd]

Tried it with two different disks -- a MacPaint copy I made yesterday and a copy of Superpaint.  Both did the same thing as with the original system disk: (1) going command+E or file--> eject made the icon shadow out and the drive made sounds like it was doing something, but no ejection.

Shutting down resulted in a restart with no attempt to eject the disk.

This happens with both versions of the 800k drives.

Uniserver says these original ROMs can't eject 800k disks.  However some of you have said you have been able to eject, no problem.

So while the "auto restart" seems normal based on what I have heard of people using this system/finder configuration, I'm still at a loss for the ejection issue.