Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
boitoy1996

Powermac 6220CD

Recommended Posts

This system uses IDE for its hard disk.

 

You should be able to use a CF card, I haven't heard of any specific limitations against that in these machines, which I have seen people run bigger and faster IDE disks in without trouble. The only thing I can think of specifically is that you will likely want to find an adapter that only has one slot. I don't know if primary/secondary or master/slave was implemented on these machines, because there was only room for one IDE device.

 

If there's threads about using CF on a 630, that information should apply to this system as well.

 

If necessary, it also has an external SCSI port you could boot from.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To my knowledge, none of the DOS compatibility options on any previous systems work in 5200/6200 series machines.

 

The 6200 is pretty ho-hum in that most of the exciting LCPDS upgrades aren't worth it in that machine because they're designed to bring an LC1/2/3 up to slightly higher standards. The main thing worth putting in that slot on a 6200 is an Ethernet card, if you aren't able to find a comm slot card. Many older LCPDS cards (the IIe card in particular) outright won't work on the 6200.

 

The 6200 is basically the bog standard baseline inexpensive entry level PowerPC computer from 1995. It's a good machine to have in a collection, I'm going to pick up one (actually, a 6220 if I remember correctly) this year, but it's expansion options are extremely specific, and they're very tailored to home environments.

 

The main expansion it does have that sets it apart from many of the other Mac families at the time is an a/v input system and TV/FM tuner options. I don't remember if the 6200 had this option specifically, but I know that some 6000 series models (this could be 6360/6400/6500, which is an entirely new architecture, mind) had a digital video compression card built and labeled by Avid.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Cory5412 I am scared after reading that I cannot use an external dial up modem faster than 9600 on this machine because the serial ports aren't "real", they are software, but then I read that some later boards had hardware handshaking.  How can I tell if mine supports that or not?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The short answer is don't believe most of what you read about the 6200. It was written by people who were literally just guessing who ultimately had no place doing so. In particular, don't believe literally anything written about the 6200 on Low End Mac(1).

 

The 6200's serial controllers are the same ones used in all the other contemporary Macs. Any given model may or may not have some firmware problems that makes the use of extremely fast modems unusable, but the best way to find out is to give it a go (there is also a testing tool, I forget which OS discs it's on). At worst, just put Ethernet in it, since LCPDS ethernet cards are easy to find. (for example.)

 

 

(1) The context here isn't any malicious action on LEM's part, but LEM was founded in 1997, and in 1997 you could go into a used computer retailer and a Power Macintosh 6200/75 and a Power Macintosh 7200/75 were probably going to be the same price (a few hundred dollars.) the idea at the time was that they wanted to warn you against the 6200 because it is, for all intents and purposes, a worse machine than the 7200.

The gotcha here is that almost every single technical reason they put forth for why you should avoid the 6200 is basically fabricated. Someone said "oh that looks weird" and half filled in the blanks and came to an extremely wrong conclusion.

It has been discussed at length on this forum. There are some good reads online about it, but the short version is that while the 6200 is a far cry from the 9500, it's still a competent Mac in its own right and makes sense within Apple's product range at the time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You pinpointed me exactly. I got my info from low end Mac.  LEM and their "road apple" list is why I've been only wanting high end machines and have been making comments about LCs being junk.  I was taking everything LEM said for the truth.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

An okay-ish attitude to have if this is 1997 and you're dedicating $800 to the task of buying a machine that is around two to four years old and expected to last you two to four more.

 

It's honestly a pretty bad attitude to have if this is 2017 and you're spending money trying to learn what the platform was like at the time.

 

The platform is better represented by a machine like the 5200 and 6200 than the 8500 and 9500, mainly because Apple sold mountains more consumer machines than professional ones, and as I've said before, there's generally nothing you can do in 1995 on a 9500 that you can't also do on a 6200.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/30/2017 at 1:30 PM, Bolle said:

There never was a DOS card for the LC-PDS I think.

None by Apple AFAIK, but pretty sure my Reply DOS Cards were for the PDS slot. Have to check the dates on them, they may have been designed for the PPC RoadApples. The 68lc040 socket was the interface for the first round of compatibles IIRC.

 

Can the 6200 notion, the first gen RoadApples were AWFUL! Get something like the 6290CD with a bit faster system bus and twice the L1 Cache for a better comparison.

 

Performa 6360 with PCI, L2 Cache Slot, higher (1024x768) max resolution and full 64bit data bus is the real deal in that form factor.

6300/160 was same spec as well, but NOT the horrible 6300/120 RoadApple. TERRIBLE bit of naming nonsense going on there.

 

Cory's pretty much right, but there's generally nothing you'd want a 9500 to do it on in `1995 that you'd deign to do on a 6200, given an option. While 90% of people could likely do 90% of anything they'd ever NEED to do on a 6200 90% of the time using AppleWorks, those other three ten percents overlapped with a vengeance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It appears there's already a 6220, may as well use it. The 6290/6300 are "better" second-generation systems, the improved bus/CPU speed and slightly larger cache made up for a lot of the shortcomings of the original system (proving that the design itself was nowhere near as apocalyptically bad as people say it was, but.)

 

Of note is that some of the low end PowerBook 5300s also have a lot of these problems.

 

The 6360 should probably have been called the 4400, and Apple should probably have never built the 4400 that it did, but that's not exactly here or there.

 

If you want an example of a "good" consumer Mac, going all the way for a 6400 or 6500 is probably your safest bet, since those will already have two PCI slots, the same or better graphics (Apple had moved to ATi for that platform somewhere along the way, I think some of the faster 6500 revs), etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He can always snag a real motherboard for it. [}:)]

 

6360 and 6400 are the same board but for the speed bump and taller, two slot PCI riser for the FuglyTower. I'd stick with either of those for playtime, they're rock solid.

 

6500 is both better and a lot worse at the same time. Much better resolutions and depths with the new graphics chipset and the VRAM doubled to 2MB. The speed bumps again and the bus is 20% faster, but that's likely its downfall. The 6500/Gazelle Architecture's bus speed is shared with the TAM along with that nightmare's incompatibilities when it comes to actually using modern I/O interface cards on its PCI Bus.

 

4400's pretty cool actually. Tanzania is an interesting architecture. I wonder if the same kind of problems crop up in the Tanzania to Tanzania II bus speed bump as we've seen with 6360/6400 to Gazelle in 6500 & TAM? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How often do logic boards come up without the rest of the system? That seems like impractical advice.

 

Ultimately, logic board upgrades are a bad advice to give to this kind of question. It's about as useful as "Get a 7200 instead, those have PCI slots and G3 upgrades." and then answering a 7200 question with "Get a G3, those start fast."

 

If your only goal is to get a fast computer, apple.com sells fast computers to buy. If the goal had been to buy the fastest computer of a particular kind, I'm sure that would be the thread that was created, not a thread about what you can do with a computer that's already around.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But you have to have a chassis that supports it

 

Anyways, guess what people?  My CF Card and adapter arrived today and I have it all in the 6220.  This is NOT a "Road Apple" as suggested by LEM.  This machine, while beat up and not astetickly pleasing, is AWESOME.  Having Flash memory as the hard drive makes it quiet, real quiet.  It may not be top of the line even for its day, but it IS something that a 16 year old computer nerd in 1995 would have blown his college savings on, and been happy with every penny spent, and thats good enough for me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/1/2018 at 2:10 PM, Cory5412 said:

How often do logic boards come up without the rest of the system? That seems like impractical advice.

Given the impatience factor involved, duly noted. Bare boards in the 6400/6500 architectures still show up fairly regularly on eBay, but to me that means two or three times a year. IIRC, someone picked up a loaded one linked to in eBay finds not all that long ago.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Calling me out on my impatience was not called for. I am well aware of my personality.  After all I created myself

 

Once again I want to say that I don't feel this system is junk.  I was beginning to feel insecure in my decision to buy it for $190 on eBay but now I feel secure and sound in my decision. Combine that with the $280 Centris and I'd say unless an SE30 falls in my lap for under 100 shipped, I'm taking a break on spending.  Plenty of toys to keep me happy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I find it's always expensive to get into a new hobby, but once you've jumped a few hurdles it gets much cheaper :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Trash80toHP_Mini said:

Bare boards in the 6400/6500 architectures still show up fairly regularly on eBay, but to me that means two or three times a year

 

Aren't full 6400/6500 systems basically on eBay all the time? Plus, part of the experience of having a 6400/6500 is the extra room in the system and the multimedia system, what with that subwoofer and all.

 

Regardless, the 6220 is a fine enough system. It's low end, but that isn't nearly as bad as what Low End Mac would have you agree. (I have always found that a little weird, for a site that advocates low endness, but whatever.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Money and space are an issue for the toy. (pun un-resisted)  A drawer board can be had for less than the shipping price of of those things at times and that's one big pile of ugly molded onto an upended 6220 DT just to house a Zip drive, a second PCI slot and about 3 pints of reverb.

 

IIRC some of the wait state impositions of the hardware implementation make the architecture worse the than way the LC and CC were lamed with a narrow data bus. Heck, the 68000 was designed to be 32/16bit as well as the 386SX and the 8088 as 16/8bit.But tuning a processor to a narrow data bus on the die is much different than laming a full blown Processor at the chipset level. Introducing Macs designed for the low end by being intentionally "Compromised" by data choking in order to make the high end Macs look better by comparison was always the most egregious form of Mac tax. LEM embraces efficient use of "less than top end" Macs, not groveling at Apple's feet for the worst of the scraps thrown to the masses.

 

It's been an interesting discussion, I learned why the 6290 a friend gave me wasn't quite the turd I'd expected it to be back when it was merely obsolescent. It made a fine PPC code running replacement for the fabulous Quadra 630 I'd built into the rugrat's desk. When I collected a 5200 I only used it as a 15" TV for a while in the shop, so I never noticed any differences. The added Cache probably smoothed over the glitches suffered by the first gen.

 

Using that 5220CD should be fun, I'd be curious to see how well it handles MP3 decoding/play and typing at the same time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Trash80toHP_Mini said:

Money and space are an issue for the toy. (pun un-resisted)

If you will excuse me for asking, what is the pun here?  What toy?  The computer is a toy?  I'm a toy?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×