Just returning to this thread, if I'm reading this correctly, the Rage 128 sounds like the best card to have inside your G3 Powermac, would that be right?
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Routes to upgrade a B/W Powermac
- Thread starter haemogoblin
- Start date
So far as I'm aware the "Best" cards you can use with OS 9 are the Radeon 8x00/9x00 series and some models of Nvidia GeForce up to... the 4TI, although I'm not certain the PCI versions of the latter are compatible with the drivers. (Seriously, have no idea.) I think the last "official" OS9-compatible PCI Radeon Mac edition card was a 9200-based card; notably it's actually not that much faster than the "original" R100 Radeon.
If you're using OS X arguably the best "bang-for-buck" card is probably a flashed GeForce FX 5200. (The cards used to be dirt cheap even when new.) Supposedly they'll even support Core Image under Tiger; that may not necessarily be a good thing given the bus bandwidth, but it's good for shock value. Said cards are essentially worthless under OS 9, however.
If you're using OS X arguably the best "bang-for-buck" card is probably a flashed GeForce FX 5200. (The cards used to be dirt cheap even when new.) Supposedly they'll even support Core Image under Tiger; that may not necessarily be a good thing given the bus bandwidth, but it's good for shock value. Said cards are essentially worthless under OS 9, however.
I was thinking today, I have a funny feeling I have a voodoo card in my G3. Will have to check when I get home
Well it looks like what I though was in my Powermac and what is, are two totally different subjects lol
I have
G4 500mhz CPU
512mb Ram
ATI Rage 16mb
Ultra66 Adaptor
PCI USB card
Ralink Wifi Card
Think my first step will be to upgrade the ram, upgrade to 10.4.11 and look for a better video card.
I have
G4 500mhz CPU
512mb Ram
ATI Rage 16mb
Ultra66 Adaptor
PCI USB card
Ralink Wifi Card
Think my first step will be to upgrade the ram, upgrade to 10.4.11 and look for a better video card.
Rage 128 actually does surprisingly well with Tiger, just FYI.
Thanks for the info, I'll keep that in mind. Today I've been swapping out ram modules trying to find a setup which does not lead to the machine crashing. I have 2 pairs of 256mb PC133, both from different manufacturers. The Powermac was having none of it, so I took the memory out and tried other configurations.
I've ended up with 2x256mb Crucial brand, 2x128mb inferion modules. So far it seems to be working, I'm typing on the machine as we speak. I really need to update to 10.4.11, so I can use TenFourFox. Currently using an old version of Firefox, which is struggling with the site. Having 768mb instead of 512mb has made a visible difference to performance.
I've ended up with 2x256mb Crucial brand, 2x128mb inferion modules. So far it seems to be working, I'm typing on the machine as we speak. I really need to update to 10.4.11, so I can use TenFourFox. Currently using an old version of Firefox, which is struggling with the site. Having 768mb instead of 512mb has made a visible difference to performance.
My G3 was topped out at a factory 450MHz with a rev 2 board and slightly faster Rev.2 Rage128 and 1Gb of RAM, with 7200rpm Seagate drives. My Yikes (which is essentially a B+W minus ADB and with firmware support for a G4 CPU) has basically the same setup but had a Sonnet 500MHz G4 ZIF upgrade in it and whilst a little faster it isnt hugely so... well at least wasnt until I stuck a n R7000 64Mb video card in it which did seem to slicken it up a fair bit. For what it's worth theyre still usable... in Panther they are slick and nice, in Tiger they lug a bit, especially the G3. Tiger really does benefit a lot from a better graphics card and Altivec it seems.
But yes, I have found this architecture to be very temperamental and particularly picky about RAM... basically its been a case of suck it and see. Cheap nasty PC-133 RAM that will work fine in my P133, and even my iMac's crashes my Yikes and B+W.
But yes, I have found this architecture to be very temperamental and particularly picky about RAM... basically its been a case of suck it and see. Cheap nasty PC-133 RAM that will work fine in my P133, and even my iMac's crashes my Yikes and B+W.
My B&W still only has the 640MB it came with when I ended up with it because none of the PC100/133 256MB DIMMs I had lying around, including some pretty expensive ones that worked *absolutely fine* in various Pentium II/III machines, would work reliably, causing heaps of kernel panics/freezes/other such nonsense.
These machines are also hideously picky about PCI cards in my experience. Mine hated three out of four USB cards I tried.
These machines are also hideously picky about PCI cards in my experience. Mine hated three out of four USB cards I tried.
I know that all the PCI cards in this machine are alright, it's just the memory. Mixing modules is always going to be hazard prone, which is why I've bought four matching 256mb modules. Hopefully this will work, they are PC100, so i'm hoping that will help.
I just want to get this machine running stable again, it used to be such a lovely little mac
I just want to get this machine running stable again, it used to be such a lovely little mac
So I have spent a good part of today, swapping the ram in and out of this machine. Then this evening after the final straw or was it the last kernal panic. I took all the memory out, put it to one side and picked up random chips from the pile i had on the floor. Two odd 256 modules, two odd 128mb and what do you know, it works! it's not crashed, kernal panic'd. Sod law!
Update
Now running 9.2 along with OS X Tiger 10.4.11, so far so good. Seriously beginning to consider swapping the Rage 128 for a Radeon 9000.
Now running 9.2 along with OS X Tiger 10.4.11, so far so good. Seriously beginning to consider swapping the Rage 128 for a Radeon 9000.
I upgraded most of my PPC macs. Because of the issues of large SCSI hard drives, I purchased an IDE PCI card and put a 120 Gig 16Mb cache hard drive in. I then brought a 128 Mb AT graphic card. Then a firewire card then a huge ram upgrade where I managed to locate so big ram modules that take the ram up to 1.5 Gig
I also installed a Sonnet G4 800 MHz processor upgrade. And finally a Yamaha CD burner.
I also installed a Sonnet G4 800 MHz processor upgrade. And finally a Yamaha CD burner.
BTW: I upgraded my PowerBook G3 b/w RAM with 4 doublesided 256MB modules today and they worked immediately. I got them from fleabay:
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=271913467926&globalID=EBAY-AT
Second:
I swapped the ATI Rage 128 with a Radeon 7000 from here:
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=200710223413&globalID=EBAY-AT
which worked immediately in OS 9.2.2 and VGA mode.
A second Radeon 7000 from here
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=261435567084&globalID=EBAY-AT
did NOT work!
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=271913467926&globalID=EBAY-AT
Second:
I swapped the ATI Rage 128 with a Radeon 7000 from here:
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=200710223413&globalID=EBAY-AT
which worked immediately in OS 9.2.2 and VGA mode.
A second Radeon 7000 from here
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=261435567084&globalID=EBAY-AT
did NOT work!
Thats a funny coincidence, I bought 2x256mb sticks from there and bought another 2 last night after I discovered the ram doesn't like sitting along side what is already in my G3. I was getting kernel panics left, right and centerSorry, I meant PowerMAC G3.
PC133 compliant SDRAM should provide timings via the SPD EEPROM for at least 133 and 100MHz. Typical timings on a PC133 module are 3/3/3 at 133MHz, and 2/2/2 at 100MHz. I am aware of issues using some PC133 ram in the B&W G3s, but my experience has been that it works as long as modules aren't using higher density memory than the controller supports. PC133 is more recent than PC100, so you're more likely to run into 256Mbit chips on a DIMM. 128Mbit chips are the maximum supported, so 256MB modules must have 16 chips, no less.
Yes, single sided 256Mb Dimms won't work
And 3/3/3 PC133s cannot work at 2/2/2, thus if installed they will foce 2/2/2 dimms to work at 3/3/3 which could be problematic if not only slower. so i wouldn't mix CL2 PC100 & CL3 PC133.
there are CL2 PC100
http://eshop.macsales.com/MyOWC/Upgrades.cfm?sort=pop&model=41&type=Memory
there are CL3 PC133
http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other World Computing/133SD256328/
best are CL2 PC133
http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other%20World%20Computing/133SD2563282/
And 3/3/3 PC133s cannot work at 2/2/2, thus if installed they will foce 2/2/2 dimms to work at 3/3/3 which could be problematic if not only slower. so i wouldn't mix CL2 PC100 & CL3 PC133.
there are CL2 PC100
http://eshop.macsales.com/MyOWC/Upgrades.cfm?sort=pop&model=41&type=Memory
there are CL3 PC133
http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other World Computing/133SD256328/
best are CL2 PC133
http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other%20World%20Computing/133SD2563282/
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About the 66Mhz PCI slot, I think that it is a different PCI controller than the lower two 33Mhz PCI slots ( like the PM 9600 that has two PCI "Bandit" controllers, one that works the 3 upper slots + motherboard SCSI & serial, another one that works the 3 lowers slots).
I'd stick with a 66Mhz Rage 128 in it, instead of a 33Mhz 9200 that will then work in 32 bits only.
An ATTO UL3 66 SCSI card will work great in the 66Mhz slot, and the 9200 Radeon will give its full power in one of the lower 33Mhz 64bits PCI slots.
I'd stick with a 66Mhz Rage 128 in it, instead of a 33Mhz 9200 that will then work in 32 bits only.
An ATTO UL3 66 SCSI card will work great in the 66Mhz slot, and the 9200 Radeon will give its full power in one of the lower 33Mhz 64bits PCI slots.
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