Macintosh 68060 Redux

Thanks! I took styling hints from the IIcx to the point where I was even measuring features with calipers. The "minor" lines on the front hide the primary vents, there are secondary vents in the vicinity of the picoPSU as well as the 060/cache board to draw air over the heatsink. I hadn't thought about setting up for an external floppy (actually, floppy never crossed my mind at all...), but I have plenty of space on the rear panel so I might do that...

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@zigzagjoe What app do you use for modeling? I've often toyed with the idea of reproducing some of Frog Design's prototypes and making them into real products. There's a guy on YouTube who did that with Apple's really slick MessagePad/Phone combo unit. Another guy (same guy?) did it with the Apple //c prototype.
 
@zigzagjoe What app do you use for modeling? I've often toyed with the idea of reproducing some of Frog Design's prototypes and making them into real products. There's a guy on YouTube who did that with Apple's really slick MessagePad/Phone combo unit. Another guy (same guy?) did it with the Apple //c prototype.
Autodesk fusion. While I'm not in love with being in bed with autodesk, I learned autodesk inventor around 20 years ago and that's how my brain works when thinking about these things now. It's not the easiest thing to do aesthetically pleasing stuff in, I'd say, but great for engineering tasks.
 
Last time I used AutoDesk was AutoDesk R12 on Windows 3. I have free access to their online version through my education account, but I found it very confusing.
 
FreeCAD, https://www.freecad.org/, is otherwise open source and powerful. It is fully offline. Personally I also use Fusion 360, but I'm not super keen on the cloud based nature of it. Fusion is a lot more forgiving compared to FreeCAD (in Fusion sketches does not need to have all constraints fulfilled for instance).

Others have also used TInkercad with great success (never personally tried it).
 
FreeCAD, https://www.freecad.org/, is otherwise open source and powerful. It is fully offline. Personally I also use Fusion 360, but I'm not super keen on the cloud based nature of it. Fusion is a lot more forgiving compared to FreeCAD (in Fusion sketches does not need to have all constraints fulfilled for instance).

Others have also used TInkercad with great success (never personally tried it).
Yeah, FreeCAD is a little odd if you're used to some of the commercial offerings, but is plenty good enough.

Make sure you get version 1.1 as it includes some good quality of life improvements. (Or newer if you read this in the future when later versions exist, unless newer versions get worse, in which case stick to 1.1).

I've been trying to develop my FreeCAD skills lately.
 
Finally got around to putting a LA on the machine to chase the network issue, and the problem became obvious. Turns out, if it walks like a duck (data corruption), talks like a duck (data corruption): it's probably a duck (data corruption).

1778469038267.png

The SONIC (+BIOS) and 060 are fighting over the bus. Specifically, the 060 took the bus when it shouldn't have; the SONIC continues to try to run cycles as it's the rightful owner of the bus at the same time as the CPU, and everything goes awry. Fall down, go boom.

Wouldn't you know it, there's an errata that sounds a heck of a lot like this. As the SONIC takes a moment before running the first bus cycle, as far as my buggy early 060 is concerned it never sent one at all.

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The solution is straightforward: the third workaround, don't issue BG to the 060 until we see BB go high first indicating the SONIC is off the bus. My adapter picks up three more bodges.

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And just like that, no more crashing. I haven't tried Appletalk over IP yet but I expect it's working too.

Takeaway: if using the "simple" 060 adapters, you must use a late mask 060 for the onboard networking to work. Otherwise, the onboard networking can't be used. A nubus card could be used instead, though it's about half as fast as the onboard. This has some relevance to other Macs which might potentially host an 060: no bus mastering PDS or Nubus cards can be used with early mask chips. In particular, the LC475/605 would need to be wary of the later LC PDS ethernet cards which use a bus mastering SONIC.
 

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Finally got around to putting a LA on the machine to chase the network issue, and the problem became obvious. Turns out, if it walks like a duck (data corruption), talks like a duck (data corruption): it's probably a duck (data corruption).

View attachment 98693

The SONIC (+BIOS) and 060 are fighting over the bus. Specifically, the 060 took the bus when it shouldn't have; the SONIC continues to try to run cycles as it's the rightful owner of the bus at the same time as the CPU, and everything goes awry. Fall down, go boom.

Wouldn't you know it, there's an errata that sounds a heck of a lot like this. As the SONIC takes a moment before running the first bus cycle, as far as my buggy early 060 is concerned it never sent one at all.

View attachment 98695

The solution is straightforward: the third workaround, don't issue BG to the 060 until we see BB go high first indicating the SONIC is off the bus. My adapter picks up three more bodges.

View attachment 98696

And just like that, no more crashing. I haven't tried Appletalk over IP yet but I expect it's working too.

Takeaway: if using the "simple" 060 adapters, you must use a late mask full 060 ("rev 6" 0E41J) or a LC chip for the onboard networking to work. Otherwise, the onboard networking can't be used. A nubus card could be used instead, though it's about half as fast as the onboard. This has some relevance to other Macs which might potentially host an 060: no bus mastering PDS or Nubus cards can be used with early mask chips. In particular, the LC475/605 would need to be wary of the later LC PDS ethernet cards which use a bus mastering SONIC.
Interesting.

You mentioned not mattering with an LC 060? Is that just because the LCs all don't have the bug? Were they all a later mask?
 
Interesting.

You mentioned not mattering with an LC 060? Is that just because the LCs all don't have the bug?
Exactly. I attached the errata document to the prior post for reading, but here's the relevant bit.

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Those early 060s were buggy sumbitches. Even if motorola had delivered them on time, the existing macintosh chipsets would have needed to be changed (or, more likely, a patch GAL added) in order to avoid this.
 
Exactly. I attached the errata document to the prior post for reading, but here's the relevant bit.

View attachment 98698

Those early 060s were buggy sumbitches. Even if motorola had delivered them on time, the existing macintosh chipsets would have needed to be changed (or, more likely, a patch GAL added) in order to avoid this.
Am I reading that table wrong? What if you have a 1F43G mask 68LC060? Don't you have the bug then?
 
Uh, nope, you're right; I don't know why I entirely missed the LC chips listed too. D'oh. Thankfully, we're within the edit window :)
Shame though, it means an LC chip isn't an easy work around (let's be honest, full fat 060s aren't exactly affordable anyway!).
 
Shame though, it means an LC chip isn't an easy work around (let's be honest, full fat 060s aren't exactly affordable anyway!).
Last i checked the later LC chips are still around a third of the price of an early (buggy) full 060. So, definitely more palatable!

Ultimately, I still regard this as a curio: 060 is impractical for Mac use unless someone is willing to put in the major work required to fix the corner cases and round off some of the edges. You're really better grabbing a reasonably spritely PPC. I'm not sure that anyone else has gotten around to booting an 060 yet - not that I've heard, anyways.
 
Last i checked the later LC chips are still around a third of the price of an early (buggy) full 060. So, definitely more palatable!

Ultimately, I still regard this as a curio: 060 is impractical for Mac use unless someone is willing to put in the major work required to fix the corner cases and round off some of the edges. You're really better grabbing a reasonably spritely PPC. I'm not sure that anyone else has gotten around to booting an 060 yet - not that I've heard, anyways.
Yeah, I don't have a programmable ROM or the ROM hacking experience.

Truthfully I see the LC 475 as the exception to the not worth it rule because those LC socket PPC cards aren't affordable, and the bus doubling feature, combined with the 475s programmable bus, opens the door to 75MHz 475's even without exceedingthe logic board or CPU ratings.

I'm hopeful we'll see progress with time, or I'll ne day I'll learn enough :)
 
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