LC Models - Which to keep?

[minimac]

If one possessed the following systems

Performa 400
LC 475
Color Classic
SE

Would getting rid of the Performa 400 result in a deficit of capability, however obscure? (E.g. specific system or software, macffects pds card, 16 bit bus, really anything?) Or can the other systems functionally replicate the 400 completely. Thanks

 

[Snial]

If one possessed the following systems

Performa 400
LC 475
Color Classic
SE

Would getting rid of the Performa 400 result in a deficit of capability, however obscure? (E.g. specific system or software, macffects pds card, 16 bit bus, really anything?) Or can the other systems functionally replicate the 400 completely. Thanks

I'll jump in first as it'll be the least knowledgable (and because I have a P400)! the LC475 is an '040, so there are some things that can run on the '030-based P400 that won't on an LC475, e.g. due to cache differences. The CC is essentially the same as a P400 except that the screen resolution is 512x384. So, you could get rid of the P400 if you had a CC screen modification to support 640x480 (and of course, 512x384, which the link doesn't provide a solution). The P400 will support 512x384 of course with the right monitor. If you plug the 512kB Video RAM into the CC (then you get 16-bit colour at 512x384).

 

[VMSZealot]

There's a personal aspect to it as well. I mean, sensibly, I could get rid of my LCIII because I have an LC475 - but I bought the LCIII whilst at university in Germany, so there's sentimentality to that one.

Macs I have

Macintosh SE (my first ever Mac, I bought it in Orpington, second hand for £400 in 1992, my first year at university.
Macintosh LCIII (bought in Hamburg, and since upgraded to an LCIII+)
Macintosh SE/30 (the greatest Mac ever)
Macintosh Quadra 650 (bought for an experiment, not used so much any more because…)
Macintosh LC475 (upgraded to full 040, heatsinked, 68MB RAM, and probably my most used 68k Mac now)
Macintosh IIci ('bought' in the last few years, where 'bought' is 'recovered from a pile of junk in a barn that the farmer was clearing out'. There were two, both more or less working, one very scruffy. I sold the scruffy one and the nice one is working perfectly now.)
Powerbook 100 (from mg man, thank you, and since upgraded with wifi. I sometimes use it for work, and I have pondered replacing the battery).
PowerMac G3 (upgraded to G4, and which broke half way through a development project. I'm thinking it might have forgotten how to use its G4 upgrade - so now I need to find a 400MHz G3 processor if I'm going to get it working again)
PowerMac G5 (dual processor, I need to replace some of the RAM which has gone mouldy. But, even with only 2GB RAM, I was able to finish the project that I started on the G3).
2011 MacBook Air
2011 Mac Mini
2011 Mac Pro (dual 6 core 3.42GHz, 128GB RAM, stupidly large graphics card, many terabytes of SSD)
2020 Mac Mini (my first Apple Silicon Mac, and wow! it even scorches the Mac Pro - and with far, far, less memory and much lower power consumption)
2022 MacBook Air

Those are just the Macs, and just the ones that spring to mind. And the bold ones are keepers. If it's not bold then it may go at some point. If the offer is good enough!

 

[Phipli]

LC475, e.g. due to cache differences

You can disable the cache and run the 475 in 24bit mode. The only stuff that won't run is generally stuff that won't run in System 7. They don't have the RAM limitations of older LCs.

They also easily software only overclock and underclock so a 475 can basically perform like anything from an LC through to an 840av performance wise. It is every 68k Mac in one, as long as you don't need Nubus slots.

The 475 is a vastly superior machine

 

[Phipli]

PowerMac G3 (upgraded to G4, and which broke half way through a development project. I'm thinking it might have forgotten how to use its G4 upgrade - so now I need to find a 400MHz G3 processor if I'm going to get it working again)
PowerMac G5 (dual processor, I need to replace some of the RAM which has gone mouldy. But, even with only 2GB RAM, I was able to finish the project that I started on the G3).

Any cheap G3 233 should work if you clock it down.

 

[minimac]

Insightful and interesting reads. The CC does indeed have the 640x480 modification done to it, so the LC2 sounds like it's mostly redundant. It does indeed have history, being a university assignment machine, however the 475 appears similar enough to trick the brain, and it sounds like the CC will run everything that the LC2 would have. Thanks!

 

[Snial]

You can disable the cache and run the 475 in 24bit mode. The only stuff that won't run is generally stuff that won't run in System 7. They don't have the RAM limitations of older LCs.

I knew about disabling the cache, but didn't think about the System 7 limitation. The P400 will run System 6.0.8. I think what I meant about the cache is that I suspect it's possible to contrive code for a P400 with its cache turned on, that would fail to run correctly on an LC475 with or without the cache turned on. Also, the exception stack frames for the '040 aren't the same as for a 68020.

They also easily software only overclock and underclock so a 475 can basically perform like anything from an LC through to an 840av performance wise. It is every 68k Mac in one, as long as you don't need Nubus slots.

The 475 is a vastly superior machine

Yet only around for about 5 months! When I was buying my first Mac (to follow my then 7 year old QL) it was about 4 months before the LC475 came out, so I couldn't have picked it. I somewhat considered an LC III, but figured the P400 would do what I needed, which was true. I would have had to upgrade from the P400 in late 1996 anyway, because an LC III would still have been too slow for SoftWindows + Turbo C++.

 

[Phipli]

I think what I meant about the cache is that I suspect it's possible to contrive code for a P400 with its cache turned on, that would fail to run correctly on an LC475 with or without the cache turned on.

I think that might be a bit too much of an edge case for decisions on which machine to keep. Are there that many real world programs that cause this issue? The only stuff I've known was fixed by turning off the cache, and even that is rare.

By reversing the logic - a lot of software requires an 040, so more software will run on the 475.

 

[iantm]

Ditto on the 475. If it lacks an FPU you can get a processor swap on eBay, and it makes a difference. I think you've got a solid range of 68k machines with the SE / CC / 475 and of the two the 475 is a better machine, slightly faster, more expandable from the RAM to the VRAM. It's even energy star compliant, uses less power. The CC is essentially the same as the P400 but AiO.



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