Howto network minivmac v0.37 on a Raspberry Pi?

[AndiS]

Hi!

I am running minivmac on a Raspberry Pi (Zero2 W) and want to bring it online (Internet, Filesharing). I have spent two evening reading everything I came across - The long netatalk and tashtalk/router threads, multiple websites, Github Pages, Wikis and so on. But I still cannot get my head around all that.

What I already did:

* Compiled minivmac 0.37 with LToUDP support - I have reasons to belive this does work.
* installed netatalk packages on the same Raspi minivmac runs. - I am able to connect to this from a Mac OS 9 machine but only when entering the correct IP address. So the server part seems to work, the appletalk magic (Chooser) not so much.

I don't have problems reading and understanding manpages, Wikis and such. I do have a problem though to decide what I actually need to get this working.

netatalk, tashrouter, macipgw bridge interfaces and whatnot.

So what i am asking is this: Can anyone tell me what I really need and what the parts are supposed to do. The configuration I can then figure out myself. As a reminder - I want to run everything on the same Raspi and I do not care about connections to real LocalTalk serial interfaces.

 

[AndiS]

It seems that noone here as successfully done this setup and I am not too surprised.

I'll ask somewhat differently then:

Can anyone explain how LToUDP networking is supposed to work and how all the software packages around AppleTalk and TCP/IP work together or what they do.

What's covered by netatalk, by macipgw, what does Tashrouter do? (to what Ethernet interfaces) I have read all their docs but am missing a short and definite description that helps understanding.

Thank you!

 

[finkmac]

netatalk: afp server. works over appletalk or ip it can also do other things... like routing, but that can be difficult to configure

tashrouter: routes packets between appletalk, localtalk (requires tashtalk hat), and LToUDP

macipgw bridge: macip gateway that encapsulates tcp/ip to allow localtalk macs to use ip (you don't need this in 90% of cases)

interfaces and whatnot: this is the important thing and the thing that you're likely stumbling on. netatalk has a hard time seeing packets coming from the same ip address / interface. in most cases you need to set up a macvtap or tun/tap setup to allow tashrouter and netatalk to talk to each other.

follow the tashrouter guide as as starting point

 

[robin-fo]

Can anyone explain how LToUDP networking is supposed to work

It encapsulates LocalTalk frames into UDP multicast datagrams. Everybody on your local IP network receiving these will be part of that virtual LocalTalk network.

The best case to test this is running multiple instances of Mini vMac on your Pi

 

[robin-fo]

I am able to connect to this from a Mac OS 9 machine but only when entering the correct IP address

Sounds like Netatalk is not communicating using AppleTalk. What is the output of nbplkup on your pi? Maybe you need to run sudo modprobe appletalk and then sudo systemctl restart atalkd and sudo systemctl restart netatalk to get AppleTalk working properly…

 

[robin-fo]

For IP networking ( = „Internet“) you need the MacIP Gateway since LocalTalk doesn‘t natively support IP packets. I‘ve never used this before..

 

[AndiS]

Thanks for the answer - yes I also believe that netatalk is only using IP and not AppleTalk - might be some config wrong and/or missing. I also know that minivmac cannot connect to IP withouth some form of a bridge. Although I am not sure if macipgateway is the correct one to use in this case.

So I am still looking for anything that can help me unserstand what building blocks are really necessary and what are they supposed to do.

I have LToUDP from minivmac that sends LocalTalk Traffic encapsulated into UDP packets (hence the name) to where? Which interface does it use? Who is supposed to receive this traffic and who bridges it from Localtalk to IP, or AppleTalk? Concrete answers for this questions are really hard to figure out from all info on the web. I'm not talking about specific configurations but a general overview of the process and the needed parts.

 

[robin-fo]

It is certainly not easy to understand for a beginner since several different networking concepts are involved.

Which interface does it use? Who is supposed to receive this traffic and who bridges it from Localtalk to IP, or AppleTalk?

LToUDP is only used by very few applications, like Mini vMac, Snow, Multitalk, TashRouter.. Netatalk is not natively compatible with LToUDP as Data Link since it only supports EtherTalk (AppleTalk over Ethernet) nowadays and not LocalTalk (AppleTalk over SDLC). You need to create a network of each type and connect them logically using a bridge (Multitalk) or Router (TashRouter).

EtherTalk and IP can run side by side with no problem, but LocalTalk only supports AppleTalk protocols. To connect LocalTalk-only devices like Mini vMac to the „Internet“, you will have to encapsulate IP packets into AppleTalk. So, when using LToUDP, you will end up with the following encapsulation: IP/DDP/LocalTalk/LToUDP/UDP/IP/Ethernet

 

[AndiS]

Thanks this is helpful and more to the point than anything I found before. It isa also pretty condensed. I will have to think through everything and likely come back with more questions ;-)

 

[AndiS]

Oh, I forgot. As far as I have understood, Netatalk 4 does support LocalTalk again after it was dropped from v3.