630 in 52xx

[supernova777]

im just trying to get to 68k land....  with what i have available to me.. i wish i could do it with a quadra 950 but i dont have one of those available to me and the closest ones, people want me to pay like 700$+ for it.. and i dont feel that it should cost that much, to sequence some MIDI with a computer from 25+ years ago... all the evidence that ive read points to the fact that the programs i want to run were written for a 68k cpu.. and may even run better on that cpu type. and the midi subsystem of the classic mac os itself was also native 68k code, that was never rewritten 100% to powerpc code, so really the most important thing to me is the 68040 cpu itself.. + the serial/printer ports connected to my multiport midi interface (opcode studio 3 from 1991 or motu midi timepiece).  i already bought this stupid mac performa 5200cd because it was the only biege mac for sale in the classifieds around me, i didnt want to do it.. i held off about 3 months actually because i knew it was a P.O.S. (lol) but its what i have available to me, also allows me to use my ide harddrive adapters for compact flash ssd + sata drives.. and this quadra swap would get me to 68k land for about 100$ total cost, with a system that can double as a TV for video games or a monitor running composite output from an old DOS 386 i have. im rubbin sticks together to make fire. lol

having used the machine for a few days im thinking that the IDE drive interface itself is the biggest bottleneck on the machine...

and the quadra 630s IDE interface would be the same or even more primitive being from up to 1 year before this one. IDE drive interfaces REALLY sucked back in 1994/1995. i might be better off just forgetting this and getting a quadra 700 or quadra 650, paying for a SATA to SCSI or SCSI2SD adapter of some sort,and chucking this performa to the curb.

the cdrom in the 5200 enclosure is also really slow i think its a 4x cdrom or 2x even. brutal.

whats the fastest cdrom + hd speeds i could get from a quadra 650/700/800 ?

can they support more modern cdrom or dvdrom drives somehow?

i guess theres no Nubus IDE or SCSI upgrade cards to increase disk speeds?

 

[uniserver]

if you need a 630 mb i or TED Hodges could sell you one for WAY cheaper then that.

as we both have stacks of these things.

 

[Bunsen]

First thing I would say is Don't Panic.

No, johnklos didn't say it was impossible to put a 630 into a 5200 shell, he said it would

/edit/ possibly, possibly not, see comment below /

require a very minor modification - nothing to do with messing around inside the power supply at all.  I can't confirm or deny that that is necessary, and I haven't attempted it myself, so I'll take his word on that.

Power and all other connections on these machines go to the motherboard through the slot edge connector, and a wiring harness inside. You would not be "modifying the power supply" - just one connection on the edge connector.

There are three places you can make that mod:

1. On the 630 motherboard's edge connector pins
2. In the edge connector slot
3. In the wiring harness

1. If you don't want to break off a pin /edit/ on the slot edge connector, not the power supply/ you could cut the trace on the motherboard right behind the pin.  That way it can always be restored to normal with a blob of solder.  Five minute job with a dental pick, scalpel, or spinning the tip of a drillbit in there by hand.

Heck, for proof of concept you could just cover that one pin with some Scotch tape or Kapton.

You may then have to add one jumper wire on the motherboard, from that trace to another edge-connector pin that supplies 5V.

2. Doing it inside the edge connector slot itself could be ... tricky, so I'll skip that one.

3. The other place to do it is on the wiring harness ribbon cable itself, behind the connector.

You'd take a scalpel, and slice through the insulation either side of that one wire that joins it to the other wires in the ribbon cable.  Then when you've lifted up enough wire to work with, cut it, trim back the insulation on the end that's still attached to the slot connector, and jump 5V to there from another pin or wire.  Insulate all your connections back up and away you go.

That's if this is even necessary.

 

i read in multiple places from multiple people that it is compatible and noone mentioned any difference in power supply voltages.

Same here.

 

[Bunsen]

What I would suggest if you want to do the 630-in-5200 is

• /edit to add/ talk to uniserver, as per comment below, or
  
• Check over the Motherboard Upgrades section at the Color Classic FAQ.
• Ditto at the World Of The Power Colo(ur) Classic.
• talk to the people at the Color Classic forum on Applefritter. 

The "Takky" modification for the CC (not the "Mystic" mod) involves prepping that machine to take any motherboard from the 630, 580, 52xx, 6360, or 54xx/55xx/64xx/65xx - and the minor differences between those boards are all known and documented.  Those folks will know exactly what you need to do, or not do.

(On a CC, the Takky mod requires a lot of mangling of the plastics and steel to make the slightly larger motherboards fit, as well as some slightly complex hacking up of the edge-connector ribbon cable {or replacing the entire harness with a 5xxx series harness} ... but as you're looking at doing this inside a 52xx, you can ignore all of that.)

 

[Bunsen]

Course the simpler way around all of this if you can find one ... is an LC/Performa 580.

Minor note: contrary to the often-mistaken LEM machine profiles claim that the 580 is "is essentially an LC 575", it's the exact same motherboard as a 630.  So yeah, IDE FTW.

 

[Bunsen]

I could slam the 630 into the 5200, turn it on and see what happens for you.

I could very well take the 5260 from the shed, bring it to my office and slide in a 630 into it and put all this to rest for you.

/if you need a 630 mb i or TED Hodges could sell you one for WAY cheaper then that.

as we both have stacks of these things.

.

Heck, this sounds like the deal of the century to me.  I'm sure if you ask uni nicely and work out a deal, he could even do any necessary mods for you, and make sure all the motherboard caps are good to go.  Then you'd have a board you know you can just slam in the back of the 5200 and get to work.

 

[Bunsen]

Shoot, I might even do this upgrade on my own 5260.

 

[Bunsen]

I don't even think the 5200 has the 3.3v rail, that wasn't till the 5400 series...

.

I'm thinking you're on the money there, because ....

"Takky" Upgrade Questions

2.2.5 — What's the deal with 3.3V regulators?

If you have an Alchemy (6360, 5400/6400) board, you'll need to add a 3.3V supply line in the wiring harness / If you have a Gazelle (5500/6500) board, you might be able to get away with leaving it out. / If you have one of the "Road Apple" x200/x300 boards, you don't need the 3.3V supply at all.

This rather strongly suggests that the 5200 machine doesn't have a 3.3V line in it after all, doncha reckon? 

Especially as:

adapted a Performa 6400 to run in a Quadra 630 case

 

[supernova777]

Bunsen

Thanks!!

thats what iw as trying to say to Johnklos....

he was saying that because he was doing mods with 6000 series boards

and (i felt that he) wasnt even truly paying attention to

what the variables in *my* equation but rather recanting his own experiences.

which is why i kept repeating in capitols that i was using different boards + different cases then he was.

 

[supernova777]

Shoot, I might even do this upgrade on my own 5260.

upgrade or downgrade?

 

[supernova777]

Uniserver,

if u want to test the 630 in a 5200 

i would very much appreciate it.

if u want to pm me and discuss 

prices for a board .. the one i was going to

buy came with the av board + 

a ethernet PDS nic. 

not sure if u have those parts aswell

but sounds like u might?

 

[supernova777]

for the record tho

http://retromaccast.ning.com/photo/1672786hoto:6096

this guy says right here he put a 6400 board in a 5200 case and it didnt require any modification.

except taking out the pci riser which was obviously too large to fit.

 

[Bunsen]

upgrade or downgrade?

Hah, considering what a mess the 52xx series all were, I'd call it an upgrade

 

[Bunsen]

the one i was going tobuy came with the av board + 

a ethernet PDS nic. 

not sure if u have those parts aswell

but sounds like u might?

Those are easy enough to find later on if uni doesn't happen to have them.

Now that I think about it, I have a hunch (only a hunch mind you) that if you have AV Out (which is on the same card I think??) you can use a TV monitor as a second display - without using up the PDS.

 

[uniserver]

ok ill try to give it a shot. see what happens    -- not sure what is in the stack of q630's

 

[Bunsen]

sweet

 

[Bunsen]

From over here:
 

but these are all nerfed in that they dont include the FPU part of the CPU chip that the 68040 had

'040s in Macs (bar the Powerbooks) are all socketed, and the LC040 and full 040 are 100% pin compatible drop in replacement parts.  So if you end up with an LC040 you can just drop a full 040 in later.
 

 

[uniserver]

well merry christmas and happy new year .. it works… nice!  lol  I take back all i ever said about the 5200….  

Its a beautiful thing…  WHY have we never thought to do this?   just go's to show you can teach an old dog new tricks.

Ladies and gentleman i present to you the Poor Mans Quadra 580/630 AIO.

33mhz full 040

80 gig IDE hd

640x480x60 thousands of colors…   ( this is only the 5260 the lesser educational model )

 

[uniserver]

reused the decal

 

[uniserver]

i am having a slight bit of trouble with the IDE…  it will not boot from…or initialize,  at first i thought it was a bad drive, and that is not the case. guess i should check the +5 and +12 make sure they are good… everything else seems to work so far.