30Video: New video board for SE/30 / IIsi / more?

[finkmac]

haha good job on the ethernet jack orientation.

my dove (i think) ethernet card has the jack angled upright which makes removing the cable a nightmare... I usually use an AUI adapter because of that. I was wondering if anybody had tried changing the angle. Very good.

 

[Reasons.]

Having a raised Ethernet jack helps a lot, too. My Maccon usually requires a credit card to remove the cable but my Bolle riser has the RJ-45 port level with the back of the case.

 

[zigzagjoe]

Initial success with the new 16 bit / LCD board. The intent for this is to be used to replace the internal CRT; if an LCD is attached it will disable the onboard video. External monitor connection still present: in VGA resolution (same as LCD) it'll mirror the display, at higher resolutions it'll disable the LCD while the external monitor is connected.

The panel will need to be in its standard orientation (it's flipped here) as the vertical viewing angle in this orientation is bad, it would be not good for a compact mac which you typically gaze downwards on. You can see it in the picture below, actually. However, side to side and vertical in the standard orientation is fine. So the LCD board will need to be redesigned but that's not a big deal.




On the topic of 16 bit, beta builds v1.0.0.2098 / 2099 for the SI and GS cards has been posted at https://github.com/ZigZagJoe/30Video-Support/tree/main/firmware It's not good, but it's there for playing with, it will probably never become a mainline feature. Here's how it looks....

Release Candidate versions 2100 and 2101 have also been posted. Unless a bug is found these will become the new shipping firmware.

Changelog:
Fix Macsbug not returning cleanly (white screen)
Introduce Virtual desktop (512x684) mode for grayscale under Mac OS
Bugfixes for virtual desktop on machines with two 30video cards
Load video timings from ROM.
Fix for running 2 30video cards in same system.
Store current resolution seperately in grayscale mode
Add nonstandard 1024x768 (XGA) resolution @ 54hz (functionality not guaranteed with all monitors)
Introduce backend support for hardware supporting 16 bit color
Fixed virtual desktop behavior in 24 bit mode (over previous RC)

 

[olePigeon]

@zigzagjoe Would it be possible to add a jumper for flipping the vertical? There could be similarly specced LCDs with different viewing angles that might work better for some people, but not others. For example: what if you have two ZFP drives that keep your Mac at a higher angle?

 

[zigzagjoe]

@zigzagjoe Would it be possible to add a jumper for flipping the vertical? There could be similarly specced LCDs with different viewing angles that might work better for some people, but not others. For example: what if you have two ZFP drives that keep your Mac at a higher angle?

Yeah, there's a solderjumper for that. Cable routing would become a little less pleasant when flipped due to the FPC cable coming from the top, but it would reach.

With this LCD, viewing angles are fine until your head is level with the screen so I suspect that'll cover most use cases.

 

[zigzagjoe]

Here's an update on the LCD stuff!

https://imgur.com/a/OLTONNI

Still need to build a few up so as to get it tested, but it's looking quite nice.

 

[superjer2000]

That looks incredible! Another kit to add to my ZZJ collection. My wife doesn't like you but maybe this kit will finally convince her that these upgrades are a necessity.

 

[joshc]

My wife doesn't like you but maybe this kit will finally convince her that these upgrades are a necessity.

I wouldn't count on it.

Nice work as usual @zigzagjoe , really elegantly done and the finished thing looks great! System 7 in colour on a sharp screen is a wonderful thing.

 

[zigzagjoe]

That looks incredible! Another kit to add to my ZZJ collection. My wife doesn't like you but maybe this kit will finally convince her that these upgrades are a necessity.

SE/30 upgrades are a necessity! you heard it here first!

I wouldn't count on it.

Nice work as usual @zigzagjoe , really elegantly done and the finished thing looks great! System 7 in colour on a sharp screen is a wonderful thing.

Thanks! I like to hear "elegantly" as that's a big part of my design philosophy with my upgrades. Simple (as practical), clean, and well executed. If asked, I'd have said a LCD retrofit wasn't really my cup of tea, but I'm finding myself reconsidering that now as it does look really nice. Bright, sharp, and colorful - having a fully digital signal path probably helps.

The one part I wasn't able to get sorted was a drop-in potentiometer for the external brightness knob. The original one is an odd combination of parameters and to get one that might work would require buying 500 of them in a go. Eugh. It's possible to DIY something that will work though.

Also got a first pass of instructions posted. It's reasonably straightforward with the usual warnings surrounding the high voltage parts. The original fan does need to be removed from the analog board and mounted to the new, but no soldering is required for that as there is a terminal block for the new fan connections.

 

[pax]

Beautiful! What’s your thoughts on an acrylic piece in front, like the kit on Etsy (also in some thread here)?

 

[obsolete]

The one part I wasn't able to get sorted was a drop-in potentiometer for the external brightness knob. The original one is an odd combination of parameters and to get one that might work would require buying 500 of them in a go. Eugh. It's possible to DIY something that will work though.

This is something I was also playing around with for my stalled Analogous Board project (that I hope to get back to working on at some point). My idea is to use a top-adjust pot like this or this and mount it on a small custom PCB that could be installed perpendicular to the analog board with right-angle pins. I think it's possible that this could end up being a little bit cleaner solution, but I never got past buying the pots and verifying that the knobs fit.

 

[Callan]

SE/30 upgrades are a necessity! you heard it here first!

I second that! ZZJoe's upgrades are an awesome compliment to an already amazing machine. ZZJoe's (and Bolle's) upgrades make the SE/30 the 21'st century's must have Mac (personal opinion, but i believe many have the same opinion).
I love tube monitors, but that LCD looks amazing. It has me on the fence about upgrading my machine. That or maybe 2 Se/30's are in my near future... one old school, one zigzagged out. A ZZ/30! Oh yeah!

 

[zigzagjoe]

Beautiful! What’s your thoughts on an acrylic piece in front, like the kit on Etsy (also in some thread here)?

@retro apple mods is the fellow that makes those. I think it'd look fantastic, I just don't have the tooling/ability to make them. However, I don't see any reason one couldn't made to fit my LCD either.

This is something I was also playing around with for my stalled Analogous Board project (that I hope to get back to working on at some point). My idea is to use a top-adjust pot like this or this and mount it on a small custom PCB that could be installed perpendicular to the analog board with right-angle pins. I think it's possible that this could end up being a little bit cleaner solution, but I never got past buying the pots and verifying that the knobs fit.

I've put 3 sets of potentiometer holes on the new one to allow some more flexibility in the future. That gets the spacing to the front correct (with the bourns pot from the document, anyways), but the leads do still need to be extended. Might be able to find some pin receptacles that might get that right, or possibly a connector with the right spacing.



This pot looks like it'd be an exact drop in fit PTN24A-A1020DPB - but it can't be sourced.

Yah, let's not... P160KN2-0F (series) from tt electronics also looked doable but similarly can't be found.

The LCD adjust uses a 10K pot, it might work with a 5K also but I haven't tried as 10K is what was specified.

 

[pyranger]

how does it look in B&W mode?

 

[zigzagjoe]

B&W looks good, perfectly sharp! Here's a quick picture. 4 and 16 grayscale modes are also supported.
(Note: The double image seen on the right side of the screen is an artifact of the phone's processing.)

256 grays is supported, but is functionally the same as 16 shades of gray due to limitations of the hardware. Thousands of grays is a color mode due to a limitation of Mac OS (also, it'd be completely pointless).

 

[pax]

@retro apple mods is the fellow that makes those. I think it'd look fantastic, I just don't have the tooling/ability to make them. However, I don't see any reason one couldn't made to fit my LCD either.

Is it the same panel has their mod? I’m asking because I’m wondering if the same acrylic piece would also fit your bracket.

 

[zigzagjoe]

Is it the same panel has their mod? I’m asking because I’m wondering if the same acrylic piece would also fit your bracket.

No, it's a different panel - I believe they're using an old ipad panel. That panel is smaller at ~8" so I think some changes would be needed.

 

[pyranger]

nice. I really like that u can go 'classic b&w mode' then switch to color when u want. My tube has menu-bar burn-in (not a total show stopper) and brightness is getting a bit faint (or more likely my eyes are getting older), which makes this a very interesting replacement. Going to work back thru this thread and see if u have already answered the, "Is a kit available?" question.

great work!

 

[zigzagjoe]

nice. I really like that u can go 'classic b&w mode' then switch to color when u want. My tube has menu-bar burn-in (not a total show stopper) and brightness is getting a bit faint (or more likely my eyes are getting older), which makes this a very interesting replacement. Going to work back thru this thread and see if u have already answered the, "Is a kit available?" question.

great work!

Thanks! I think it will serve as a rather interesting alternative to my grayscale kits. It's less "correct", which normally I'd not be a fan of with, but that LCD looks really nice, and the resolution + size combo works well.

The LCD kit isn't available yet - going to have a tester review the initial production version first - but if that goes well I should have a very small batch available in early December. After I have a better idea of demand I'll have to place a second order of PCBs.

Here's a picture of the contents. In essence, the install process is to remove the CRT and analog board, mount up the LCD and new analog board, and install the PDS card. The fan does need to be moved from the old analog board to the new, but there's a solderless terminal block for that. There's an install guide a few posts back, this thread is mostly a general worklog thread.

 

[pyranger]

sweet. thanks for the details. looking forward to seeing how this project progresses. good luck!