Which NuBus Cards will drive the 12" RGB Monitor?

[genie_mac]

I finally finished recapping a IIcx which hadn't been used in years (PSU blew up as well on first start-up :O ) and it seems successful.

The problem I now have though is the graphics card. It's a Radius GS/C-M that apparently, after doing some reading, only outputs 1152x882 and is sync'ing on green. I finally managed to hack together an adapter and found a monitor (VGA multisync) that would display an image at 1152x864 @71Hz but the quality is very bad. The monitor is not running at it's native resolution obviously but it's also showing purple shadows. The monitor is actually picking up the green signal, but somehow there is a duplicate image missing the green (hence purple) that is offset by a few pixels. Is it somehow receiving two sync signals or something?

Has anyone any experience with this kind of thing or that particular adapter (summary below)? I may try building a circuit to separate hsync and vsync from the composite green pin and feed it into the appropriate VGA pins and see if that improves the situation. But that still leaves me with sync on green (which may or may not be a problem) and I can't think of a way of stripping that.

What do you think?

Also I'd really like to use my IIcx with the 12" RGB monitor so does anyone know / have a NuBus card that does 512x348?

Radius GS/C-M:

http://www.vintagemacworld.com/radius/dircolgsc.html

1152x882 72Hz, DB15 connector.

1 Ground

2 Red Signal

9 Blue Signal

11 Ground

12 Green Signal

13 Ground

 

[Unknown_K]

Sony CRT Trinitrons are great for Sync on green video cards. Is that video card running at an unsupported refresh rate?

 

[bear]

That "shadow" is called "ringing", and it's what happens if you don't terminate your transmission lines correctly, have impedance mismatches, or a variety of other wiring faults. I'm inclined to suspect your "hacked together adapter" is at fault. How did you create it?

One other possibility comes to mind. Is it a CRT? Or LCD display?

 

[bear]

Oh... actually, wait a second. It could be ringing, but usually you'll see more than one "echo". It just occurred to me that I've seen a very similar display fault with a sync-on-green Mac display card, when I've had the separate sync lines (Vsync + Hsync) connected at the same time. If your adapter is a simple passive one (because you have a sync-on-green capable monitor) then the only lines that should be connected are R, G, and B. Don't connect anything to Hsync or Vsync. If you have green connected to green as well as to Hsync and Vsync, this isn't going to be a successful approach unless you wire in a circuit to separate the sync signals from green.

 

[genie_mac]

Thanks for the replies bear. The adapter I made up is a passive one where red/green/blue and grounds were soldered on to appropriate connectors, well no shielding whatsoever, not even the shells were connected. Neither vsync nor hsync were connected and green wasn't wired to either sync pin. Yeah, a very crude hack!

Here's a picture of the image:



The monitor I finally used is a LG 23" LCD, I had no luck getting anything on a multisync HP CRT.

Even if I could get an acceptable image I don't think I'll keep the adapter and might go looking for some other NuBus card. A modern LCD doesn't really look that nice beside a machine like that 8-o

 

[genie_mac]

Would anyone be interested in this card? Maybe we could do a swap with something like an Display Card 4•8? Might post in Trading Post as well.

 

[genie_mac]

Just a quick update on this: I have managed to get an acceptable image on a Samsung SyncMaster 710 (for once something did live up to it's name :wink: ) LCD monitor. This may be useful for other Radius GS/C owners out there.

The wiring diagram for the adapter is as follows:

Radius pin______VGA pin_________description

1------------------------6----------------(red ground)

2------------------------1----------------(red)

9------------------------3----------------(blue)

11-----------------------8----------------(blue ground)

12-----------------------2----------------(green)

13-----------------------7----------------(green ground)

It's giving me a pretty good quality image, but there are a couple of pixels missing at the bottom.

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

If the NuBus version of the Radius Pivot Cards are like the Color Pivot II/IIsi, they'll run your your 12" RGB just fine. Unfortunately both of my NuBus Pivot Cards are Monochrome only, someone else would need to test that for you.

 

[genie_mac]

That's good to know.

So does anyone know for definite what Colour NuBus card will drive my 12" RGB at 512x384?

I've been looking at loads of sites but there seems to be some contradiction, e.g. the Display Card 4.8 is quoted to work on some site, and not on others.

Has anyone successfully used the 12"RGB with a Mac II?

 

[Unknown_K]

Not many cards will do that resolution, if any would it would be an early Apple one.

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

Has anyone successfully used the 12"RGB with a Mac II?

Not yet, but I shall take up that challenge, good sir. [] ]'>

Meanwhile, I take it you've checked out the Card specs in LEM, kinda ragged in terms of presentation.

Try the Gamba charts, which show 3 Apple Cards, 2 Radius Cards and 7 SuperMac Cards that'll do it to it and the max. bit depths for each.

Time to dig through the Magic Plastic Shoe Boxen of NuBus Goodness and the big plastic radius Drawer.

I'm bach'n it on staycation after today through Thanksgiving, so I can start tomorrow . . . unless . . . [}] ]'>

 

[genie_mac]

Not yet, but I shall take up that challenge, good sir.

Nice one! No challenge to big or small . Certainly looking forward to the results!

Yeah had a look at LEM but that Gamba chart is exactly what I was looking for. Thanks!

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

I have enough time before heading over for grlf maintenance, so I've inventoried test candidates as best I could . . .

. . . curiosity always wins out! :lol:

I came up dry in the Magic Plastic Shoe Boxen:

- the SuperMac Cards are way too good to run the 12" RGB

- same story with the Apple 24AC, but they're scattered about in various Macs/DuoDocks anyway

- the early Apple Cards are too crappy to run the lil' RGB

- did find a better lookin' Apple Card in the IIx when I peeked inside: unidentified as yet

The Radius collection yielded some interesting results:

- the Radius version of the 24AC is also too good to go . . . and it's boxed up in a system, but I may try it anyway, that card's amazing! [}] ]'>

- I know for a fact that I have a Radius 24XP kicking around. Gamba says no go, but LEM could be right for once.

- the Radius Color Pivot NuBus anti-static bag was empty, disappointing, didn't remember having one

- but both of the "Pivot NuBus Interface" Cards wound up having two different flavors of Color Pivot ROMs on board: to be tested!

Thanks for starting this thread, I've got lots of ToyTime coming up starting tomorrow!

Rocketized IIcx testing of said VidCards and a pile of NICs to commence in the AM! [] ]'>

 

[genie_mac]

Good man yourself!

Looking forward to the results Capt'n !

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

Couldn't resist, got 'er in one. [] ]'>

Fired it up with the mysterious Apple Card in there and it worked, the IIcx and the VidCard that is, a proper image popped right upon the RGB. No OS to be found, though, I'll bet the MoBo side of the SCSI cable is unplugged, the topside of the cable was when I started.

Jammed in the first RCP and a perfect startup screen rose right up out of the darkness! As 50/50 chances would have it, on top of the coincidental "wedged tightly into a just too small anti-static bag" state of the other card, I tested RCP 1992_V_2.4_ROM on the first try. The 1992_V_2.2_ROM yielded the out of kilter, vertically striped startup screen with the logo in the bottom left corner.

I swapped the ROMs after the second cup of coffee, but the problem didn't move from one card to the other, the more recent card works just fine with the older 1992_V_2.2_ROM but vice ain't versa, so you'll need to find the newer version of the NuBus RCP. I'll take some pics after I test a few more cards. The differences appear to be the numbers on, and orientation of, the bar-code stickers on the back and what are probably jus date/batch codes on the trace layer. The ©1991_RADIUS_IC above the crystal can works, but the ICS part on the older card doesn't.

For a change, I couldn't find a single listing for any of the Pivot cards in LEM's NuBus specs. Go figure, so I googled a bit . . .

. . . and a decade later, whichever one this was, it really did become a biggie! [] ]'>

I'll find an OS and test, but from related info and a WAG on my part, it looks like you're stuck with just 8bit depth on this one. However, considering the supply situation of Color Pivot CRTs, I simply cannot imagine a more frugal way to shove pixels out of a NuBus Card and onto the backside of that cute little CRT of yours. [] ]'>

p.s. I think I've mentioned this before, but radius ROCKED!

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

It's official the Radius Color Pivot only rocks 256 colors, as expected. But that's not bad at all for a card Gamba's chart says won't do 12" RGB and LEM doesn't even seem to know exists.

I located the 3.5" Rocket Drive I set up before switching to the Savvio, so I've got bootage and the Monitors Control Panel to play with now. TattleTech, but not SlotInfo is on there, I'll have to fix that, becaus all TTtells me is that I've got a Macintosh Display Card and a rev number I didn't bother with. The card says MDC 670- which LEM calls an Apple Display Card 8•24 and millions of colors look very, very nice indeed on that cute lil' thang! [] ]'>

The DuoDock is always handy, so I pulled a Radius PrecisionColor 8XJ out of it which should have worked Gamba's Chart is in agreement, maybe it needs a driver? Dunno, I'll try it on the MultiSync with the VGA adapter set on tiny.

No other Cards have turned up, but I've yet to check the Q700 triplets, the 81/110 and the 7100.

 

[genie_mac]

Great stuff man Thanks for checking this out.

So things are looking good with the RCP! Is that the one that's going cheap on the Bay?

It's official the Radius Color Pivot only rocks 256 colors, as expected. But that's not bad at all for a card Gamba's chart says won't do 12" RGB and LEM doesn't even seem to know exists.

Hey colour is colour! I'd be happy with that.

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

De nada, I love figuring out this kinda crap! :approve:

So things are looking good with the RCP! Is that the one that's going cheap on the Bay?

Nope, the $3/$5 card is for the Mac IIsi PDS, but I'll bet you can find the RCP/NuBus for a few dollars more, just be sure to get the correct version.

BTW, olePigeon just re-started the RCP/NuBus tangent over in the RCPII/IIsi thread.

p.s. I think you should come up with a thread title that reflects your 12" RGB Compatibility issue, I know somebody who can change that for you.

 

[genie_mac]

p.s. I think you should come up with a thread title that reflects your 12" RGB Compatibility issue, I know somebody who can change that for you.

Sure if you know someone, go right ahead and change it...I hope you know him well

Nope, the $3/$5 card is for the Mac IIsi PDS, but I'll bet you can find the RCP/NuBus for a few dollars more, just be sure to get the correct version.

D'oh...PDS indeed...need to stop speed reading...