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Two (hardware?) problems with an SE/30

Westinghouse

Well-known member
Hi all,

I posted here a while ago about a SCSI problem with my SE/30, which I managed to resolve.
Since then I’ve replaced the surface-mount capacitors (haven’t received replacements for the axials yet), and given the board another swabbing with alcohol - sound is back.
Having used the SE/30 for a while now, I’ve identified some issues with its operation, and I’m wondering if anyone has any helpful suggestions

Problem 1: floppy drive.

The floppy drive accesses and reads floppies, and will mount them to the desktop.
When given an unformatted disk, or when asked to erase an existing disk, the system will lock up immediately upon starting initialization.
The SE/30 will boot from a floppy, but after shutting down, the disk will no longer be recognized on the SE/30, or on my known-good Mac Classic (I use the Mac Classic to make these disks).
The floppy drive has been cleaned out, and when placed in the Mac Classic it will read, write and initialize just fine.
I’ve checked a number (but not all) of the traces from the SWIM chip with my multimeter and all of the ones I’ve tested so far have been OK. I haven’t gone any further upstream though.

Problem 2: intermittent hanging and crashes.

I get some weird pauses and some crashes, and I haven’t been able to pinpoint the source - while it may be related to whatever is causing Problem 1, I do note that some of these crashes are related to Mode32 being active. This is a two-parter so I’ve broken it up into 2a and 2b.

2a: Some programs - Sierra games, and sometimes Bard’s Tale - will have a bus error almost immediately upon loading when Mode32 is on.
Macwrite will hang as it opens, freezing the system, when Mode32 is on, and works properly with Mode32 off.
Stuffit 5.5 will also lock up the system on opening if Mode32 is turned on, but runs fine when it’s off.

2b: Generally, regardless of whether or not Mode32 is on, the system will ‘pause’ - this is most noticeable in games due to the animations: the screen will stop animating and it seems as though nothing is happening at all. An input, be it a mouse click or a keyboard press (but not a mouse movement) will ‘shake things loose’ and the system runs properly again until the next ‘pause’ about 15 seconds later. It’s not only in games, though - I notice it when transferring files via Fetch, as the ‘bytes transferred’ count pauses until woken up.

I’ve got 80 megs of ram - 4x4mb in bank A and 4x16mb in bank B.
When I boot with just the 4x16mb in bank A, I get the chimes of death.
When I boot with just the 4x4mb in bank A, and mode32 turned on, the issues are still present with bus errors and freezing as described in 2a above.

I'd appreciate any insights!

Thanks!
 

 

 

uniserver

Well-known member
The floppy drive issues is probably the bourns filter needs to be replaced.

but could also be some dead traces to/fro swim same as the with the SCSI issues

when you removed all the caps, did you wash the board in hot soapy water scrubbing it well,  then giving a hot water rinse,

then a good blast off with an air compressor,   Chances are you still have cap goo causing you stability issues.

 

Westinghouse

Well-known member
when you removed all the caps, did you wash the board in hot soapy water scrubbing it well,  then giving a hot water rinse,

then a good blast off with an air compressor,   Chances are you still have cap goo causing you stability issues.
I didn't give the board an overall scrub, just spot cleaning in areas where there was obviously some cap goo.

I have been suspecting that there's some goo underneath some of the ICs - I'll have to give the board a more thorough clean and see what that does.

Any notable difference between the filters you listed, besides unit price?

I think I remember seeing a thread where the alternative-solution filters were proclaimed to be just fine.

 
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uniserver

Well-known member
i use the 80 cent networks,  they were fine for apple so they are fine for me.

nothing gets rid of GOO better then hot soapy water.  with hot water rinse...  and most important , air compressor dry.

water hides and all the nooks and needs to be blown out.

 

Westinghouse

Well-known member
Alright, I gave it a nice hot soapy scrub, rinse and air-blast.

You weren't kidding about the water tenaciously hiding everywhere!

I'm going to let the board dry overnight before I put it back in, just in case.

I'll report back tomorrow.

 

Westinghouse

Well-known member
Well, last night I gave the board a 20min soak in hot soapy water, then a scrub-down, then a rinse.

After putting it back together today and turning it on... no change at all.

I'm still in the same position as in my first post upthread.

At least I didn't break anything!

 

Westinghouse

Well-known member
Regarding Problem 1, I've checked continuity on all of the traces coming off of the SWIM, and I can't find anything amiss, so I'm regarding the bourns filter as suspect for now, and will have to wait for a replacement.

In the  meantime, I'm at a loss regarding Problems 2a and 2b.

The logic board has been thoroughly cleaned and looks factory fresh now. What else could this be? RAM? A bad solder joint somewhere? Rotten trace?

I don't want to try to check every single trace on the board...!

 

uniserver

Well-known member
start with 4 ( one meg simms ) in bank A,  run it for a while and see how it acts.

then add 4 more ( one meg simms ) for a total of 8megs.  run it for a while and see what happens.

if all is well then its probably something with your ram, or combination of ram.   

make sure your rom sim slot is clean of corrosion and FLUX.

 

uniserver

Well-known member
Sometimes the cap goo goes under the ROM simm slot, so I have to remove it and clean inspect sometimes.

The IIsi has a similar issue, but only for people using the ROM simm slot for the Dougg3 simm. otherwise the onboard rom almost always works with the IIsi, regardless of the condition of the rom simm slot.

 

uniserver

Well-known member
with some people if the board will not run a Dougg3 rom, its a deal breaker,  witch is understandable :)  Witch is why i always test. 

 
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Westinghouse

Well-known member
An update:

After a week or so of relatively smooth and stable use, I'm pretty sure that problem 2b (regular, frequent pausing) was due to an extension, "VNC Patches", which was on the SE/30 when I got it.

I think that 2a is a simple matter of non-32-bit-clean software.

Still waiting to get bourns filters to take a crack at fixing Problem 1, the non-writing / initializing FDD. 

In the meantime, when data disks made on my Classic are put into the SE/30 with their read-only tab in place, it keeps the SE/30 from corrupting them after reading.

 

uniserver

Well-known member
yes, and also just to make sure... You can try to use the Floppy from your Classic in the se/30.  just to make sure its not magnetized heads or something odd.  But i change out those pesky filters all the time...  

 

Ike

Well-known member
Hi 6502!

My SE/30 has the exact same problem 1. I also checked the continuity of the traces... without any luck. I never was able to find a working solution. So I hope maybe we can finally fix this pesky issue!

Please keep us posted when you receive the filters :)

 

Westinghouse

Well-known member
I finally got the time to change out the Bourns filter at RP10.

Man, what a hassle that was. It's in a really tight spot.

Anyways, it appears to have had very little effect.

The system still freezes on attempt to intialize a floppy - sometimes it'll throw a bomb error and restart.

I know it's not the drive because it's been tested in my Classic (and my Classic's drive behaves this way in the SE/30).

The issue also affects my external floppy when connected to the SE/30, but not when the external floppy is connected to the Classic.

I know it's not an extension causing the issue, as it still occurs if I boot with extensions off.

I have continuity between the RP10 filter and the ribbon connector port & external floppy port.

I have continuity between the RP10 filter and the SWIM.

I have continuity between SWIM and UH7.

I have no more ideas....  anyone have any suggestions?

 

Elfen

Well-known member
I have a floppy that erases floppies and it turns out that its leaky caps - in the floppy drive itself.

In the back of the drive next to the stepper motor are two caps - the dreaded 47µf @ 16V and the other is 10µf @ 16V. But they are pin hole throughs, not the surface mounts. They are the same caps but with leads.

All the other caps looks fine and the floppy drive is running fine again.

 

Westinghouse

Well-known member
That is interesting, Elfen, and something to look for - but in my case the internal drive and the exteral drive both work properly (reading and writing) when connected to a different mac.

 

Elfen

Well-known member
Now that is odd that they work on another Mac. So it's the board.

Something tells me that if the caps were replaced, the traces are good, the bournes filter replaced, the voltages checked out OK, and the board is washed from the goo, the only problem left is the SWIM Chip or the ROM.

 
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