TwinSpark Powercache incompatible?

[ktkm]

I have tried Power Central 1.3 and 2.0 in System 7.1 and 7.5.3 is there perhaps a later version I don’t know about?

 

[ktkm]

I would say that is the P34 revision.  The sticker has just fallen off the bottom left corner.  You should be good to go with that guy.  I would also check the +5V voltage pin on the floppy connector.  If it gets too low, around 4.7V, the SE/30 will freeze.  There's a good diagram of the floppy port power pins in the Classic Mac Repair Notes on page 9 (figure 5).

Finally some good news! But I still can’t rule the fact that something could be wrong with board? However it did work great in an IIcx a couple of weeks ago. Next step is to check the voltage.

 

[LOOM]

If it helps; I have exactly the same card as ktkm, the sticker in the lower left corner (front) says P34. ©1992 and the same card as in figure 22 in the manual, page 53.

I've tried to use it in my Asante MacCon3 IIsi. According to the manual it should work, but the IIsi shut itself off at the second I turn it on so I'm not sure what's up with that.

 

[joethezombie]

No, you can not use it with the Asante!  The power pins are in wildly different positions!  You *must* use a DayStar DualPort IIsi adapter with this card.  Don't do that again without the proper adapter, severe damage can occur!

 

[joethezombie]

However it did work great in an IIcx a couple of weeks ago. Next step is to check the voltage.

Do you have a IIcx adapter for the PowerCache?  Or perhaps you meant IIci?  The IIci is the ONLY Macintosh that has the default Cache slot for installing the PowerCache.  Any other model MUST use the adapter for that system, or damage to the card or the Macintosh can occur.  The best way to check the card is in a IIci.  But it's really easy to quickly check the voltage.  I seriously doubt anything is wrong with your TwinSpark adapter.  Lots of people are using them with no problem.

 

[ktkm]

Do you have a IIcx adapter for the PowerCache?  Or perhaps you meant IIci?  The IIci is the ONLY Macintosh that has the default Cache slot for installing the PowerCache.  Any other model MUST use the adapter for that system, or damage to the card or the Macintosh can occur.  The best way to check the card is in a IIci.  But it's really easy to quickly check the voltage.  I seriously doubt anything is wrong with your TwinSpark adapter.  Lots of people are using them with no problem.

Yes, I have the Daystar Cache Adapter for the IIcx.

Thanks!

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

If it helps; I have exactly the same card as ktkm, the sticker in the lower left corner (front) says P34. ©1992 and the same card as in figure 22 in the manual, page 53.

Interesting, I wonder if P34 Rev was the last version of the 68030 PowerCache series? That could explain three revisions and model designation states:

First Rev - P34 designation printed on Silk Screen Layer early on in 1992 - P33 still in production or in distribution channel?

Second Rev - P34 dropped from Silk Screen Layer, but Sticker applied - P33 out of production, but some still in distribution channel?

Third Rev - Sticker no longer applied (no residue on ktkm example) by late 1992 - P33 stock cleared from channel

The main reason I'm curious about this would be the state of my P33:

MC68881RC16B - asynchronous clocking off logic board or 16MHz reference signal on PDS if it works (untested, waiting for an adapter)

MC68030RC50B - Socketed 50MHz 68030

50MHz Crystal Can - factory installed

State of ktkm's P34:

MC68881FE33B - asynchronous clocking off logic board or 16MHz reference signal on PDS if it works at all (untested, waiting for an adapter)

MC68030FE33B - SMT 33MHz 68030

33MHz Crystal Can - factory installed

P33 and P34 are all but identical: WAG, theoretical P33 state:

MC68881XXXX - whatever  .  .  .

MC68030RC50B - 50MHz 68030 as on my P33, but sourced from third party and socketed in place of a factory installed 33MHz part

50MHz Crystal Can - board rework of 33MHz oscillator factory installation done in the field (HACKED!!!!!  [}] ]'> )

Might be a semi-educated guess more than a WAG, dunno? But sure as schiznit, were it my product that P33 design would become the First Rev P34 with SMT CPU in a friggin' heartbeat.  Gotta stave off the efforts of certain "field upgrade inclined personality types!" [)] ]'>

 

[joethezombie]

There also exists a P341 revision:

50MHz Crystal Can - board rework of 33MHz oscillator factory installation done in the field (HACKED!!!!!   [}] ]'> )

So this probably won't work.  I tried replacing a 33MHz can with a 50MHz.  I also replaced the CPU and FPU with 50MHz models.  It caused continuous bus errors.  Looking at the cards, I noticed the cache memory on the 33MHz cards is a slower access time than on the 50MHz parts.  I actually secured some faster cache memory, but have yet to attempt to replace the slow versions with their faster counterparts.  This is on a socketed PowerCache version, so I've been very hesitant to rework it, due to the rarity of the beast.  Perhaps 33MHz is good enough.

 

[LOOM]

Interesting, I wonder if P34 Rev was the last version of the 68030 PowerCache series? That could explain three revisions and model designation states:

First Rev - P34 designation printed on Silk Screen Layer early on in 1992 - P33 still in production or in distribution channel?

Second Rev - P34 dropped from Silk Screen Layer, but Sticker applied - P33 out of production, but some still in distribution channel?

Third Rev - Sticker no longer applied (no residue on ktkm example) by late 1992 - P33 stock cleared from channel

I've looked for the P34 number on other places before, because the P34 sticker is a bit faded (3 almost looks like 8, but I'm sure it says 34. Everything else matches) so I wanted to be sure - but the P34 is nowhere to be found on the silkscreen.

No, you can not use it with the Asante!  The power pins are in wildly different positions!  You *must* use a DayStar DualPort IIsi adapter with this card.  Don't do that again without the proper adapter, severe damage can occur!

I know the normal PowerCache cannot be used, but I've researched this before and found a manual stating that the Universal version can be used with the Maccon3 IIsi card.

 

[joethezombie]

Unequivocally not.  The MacCon's passthrough is a PDS socket.  The PowerCache requires a Cache socket.  Although they are dimensionally the same, the pinouts are wildly different, especially the power points.

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

ktkm__33MHz P34 - MCM6264CJ35 - SRAM - 35ns??????

jt_____50MHz P33 - CY7C185-25VC - SRAM - 25ns??????

 

[ktkm]

P33 is the shit!

Same software configuration and adapter (TwinSpark) new PowerCache (Daystar PowerCache P33 50MHz). (Thanks omidimo for helping me out!)

System is stable (no more freezing-up) and works with Power Central 1.3 and 2.0.

 

[Bolle]

So you have the not so well working PowerCache as a spare now that you have to get rid of?  ;D

Would love to get my hands on one for some testing for when we get our adapter toys ready.

 

[ktkm]

So you have the not so well working PowerCache as a spare now that you have to get rid of?  ;D

Would love to get my hands on one for some testing for when we get our adapter toys ready.

Hello Bolle,

I’m not ready to part with it just yet, since I still want to test the P33 thoroughly, and perhaps use it the IIcx again. But I could perhaps lend it to you? 

If I get it back in one pice  [] ]'>

 

[Bolle]

Nevermind, I got hooked up with a P33 as well in the meantime

 

[Ralphieboy]

Hi guys.

I have a P33 myself and C40, C43 and C53 are missing!!!!

Can someone test these 3 capacitors and send me value and tension in order to fix my card?

This would be highly appreciated.

 

[ktkm]

I’m afraid I don’t carry the skill for this kind of endeavour. Bolle? How about you?

 

[Bolle]

Those are just decoupling caps. Probably in the 100nF range or something.

I will have a look once on of my PowerCaches finds its way onto my workbench the next time.

Until then I would say you should be fine to run the card without the caps if there are no other signs of damage.

EDIT: just saw the picture in the other thread, you might want to check the traces right next to the "K10" silkscreen. They look a bit strange on the photo, might as well just be some dirt but I can't really tell.

 

[Ralphieboy]

Yes, I had the capa tested and it is as you say.

I just noticed the wired traces near K10, they could be broken but there is some “goo” on the black spot. Could be from the factory...

 

[Ralphieboy]

"A propos" KTKM, my P33 33mhz works perfectly in my SE/30 along w/ a cloned TwinSpark adaptor and a Farallon ethernet (RJ45) card only when the Power Central control panel is uninstalled.

Power gain is significant and TattleTech displays clearly the 33mhz CPU and FPU.

W/ Power Central installed, the system freezes at bootup.