Turbo 601 in SE/30

[MacSE/30]

I recently recaped my two MoBo’s with tantalum caps. Although my soldering skills are amateur at best MoBo’s are working with some problems I mention below.

I accumulated couple of CPU upgrade cards, adapters, etc over time:

- 1 x Mac IIsi ROM

- 1 x Mac IIfx ROM

- 1 x Daystar IIsi Turbo 601 angle adapter (1 PDS slot only)

- 2 x Daystar IIsi angle adapter w/ PDS pass thru (one of them has math processor slot)

- 2 x Daystar IIsi angle adapter w/ a NuBus port

- 1 x Supermac angle PDS adapter

- 1 x Stratos TwinSpark adapter

- 1 x Daystar PowerCache 030 40 MHz P33

- 1 x Daystar Turbo 040 40 MHz Rev 4.01 w/ 128 KB cache attached at the back of the card

- 1 x Daystar Turbo 601 66 MHz

I have also the following:

1 x Asante PDS Ethernet

1 x Asante SCSI2Ethernet

1 x Lapis ProColorServer 8 PDS graphics card

1 x TVS 9” Grayscale SVGA monitor

My original plan was put the, IIsi ROM, Turbo 601, Lapis, ethernet and grayscale monitor into SE/30 case.

- I have used IIsi ROM.

- I have installed System 7.5.5 using methot in Gamba’s page

- I started experimenting using one of the MoBo’s

- My findings…

#1 SE/30 does not accept more than 64 MB. During cold boot I get zebra stripes w/ 128 MB and and eventually does not boot; w/ 64 MB I still get the stripes but after a minute or so it boots.

#2 I know everybody waits for this part………………

Turbo 601 with Turbo 601 IIsi angle adapter in SE/30 DOES NOT WORK :'( Turbo 601, Quad, PowerCenter and diagnostic programs still recognizes the computer as SE/30 despite I am using IIsi ROM. The Turbo is fine, works in IIci.

#3 PowerCache + IIsi angle adapter w/ PDS pass thru = WORKS

#4 PowerCache + Daystar IIsi angle adapter w/ NuBus port = WORKS (this opens new possibilites like 100 Mbit Ethernet and HiRes external graphics, fast SCSI cards etc….. keep dreaming!)

#5 PowerCache + Stratos TwinSpark adapter = DOES NOT WORK

#6 Turbo 040 + IIsi angle adapter w/ PDS pass thru = WORKS

#7 Turbo 040 + Daystar IIsi angle adapter w/ NuBus port = WORKS

#8 Turbo 040 + Stratos TwinSpark adapter = WORKS

#9 Turbo 040 + Stratos TwinSpark adapter + Lapis + Lapis driver = Finder stucks. Computer freezes after “Force Quit”

#10 Turbo 040 + Stratos TwinSpark adapter + Lapis + w/o Lapis driver = Finder stucks. Starts after “Force Quit”. Computer freezes If I try to open Monitor Control Panel.

#11 Lapis + Lapis driver = Finder stucks. Computer freezes after “Force Quit”

I have lots of options in my mind to try but I want some input from you guys/gals.

- After the above trials I clean installed System 7.5.5 with SE/30 ROM + Mode32 but my MoBo still does not accept 16 MB RAMs. Any ideas why? It does accept 8 x 4 MB RAMs by the way.

- How the programs determines the type of the computer if they are not reading it from ROM. I mean how Daystar control panels know it’s SE/30 when I use IIsi ROM?

- Turbo 040 heat sink heats up so much that I cannot touch it. I fear that the CPU will burn if I use it couple of hours. Anyone has the same problem?

- Any ideas why PowerCache does not work w/ Stratos adapter?

- Lapis card works w/o drivers when I force quit finder but I am unable to change monitors i.e. make the external monitor primary monitor. I tried both drivers from www.macdrivermuseum.net with same results. Maybe my system version is too high I have not checked the documentation though.

- The Daystar IIsi angle adapter w/ NuBus port is an interesting one. I managed to get two of these, one with box. I never saw or heard of these until last year I saw one in a Japanese site. It has an AMD chip on it. I have not tried the NuBus port yet.

- I have a IIsi MoBo I will try Turbo 601 with Turbo 601 IIsi angle adapter combo when I pull the PSU from IIci and fix my Apple Monitor just to make sure the adapter works. Has anybody knows if the IIsi video circuit will work with a multisync monitor? If so, I do not need to repair the monitor I would use Mac2VGA adapter.

- I do not want to try the Turbo 601 with IIsi adapters or Startos because the PAL chip numbers are different:

- Daystar IIsi Turbo 601 angle adapter PAL 3046

- Daystar IIsi angle adapter w/ PDS pass thru PAL TI20L8-10CFN & 1410

- Daystar IIsi angle adapter w/ PDS pass thru & math processor slot PAL 1400 & 1410

- Daystar IIsi angle adapter w/ NuBus port PAL 2928, 2929, 2930, 2931, 2962, 2994 & AMD MACH220-15JC

- When I turn on the SE/30 with Turbo 601 nothing happens not even error sound!

This became a long post. I appreciate any comments you will give. I can try any options you can suggest w/ some reservation.

 

[JDW]

You unloaded so much information at once, it's best for me to focus on only one topic for now -- the stripes.

You say you get the stripes (horizontal SimasiMac lines) at cold boot with 64MB RAM installed, but that if you wait a while the SE/30 boots. What ROM are you using when you do this? If the IIfx ROM, such is normal. If the IIsi or stock SE/30 ROM, then such is unusual in light of the fact you replaced all the caps on the logic board.

Have you tried putting everything back in the stock configuration but with 64MB RAM and then tried cold booting? (You will either need to remove your 7.5.5 hack or boot into and earlier OS when you put back the stock SE/30 ROM.) I ask this because I wish to see if there is any other add-on that could be causing the stripes.

Not sure if it will help in your case but here is an old post that offers some further thoughts. I mention this because at one point in the past, my 16MB SIMMs gave me stripes too, I then posted here and got some replies, and then at some point those SIMMs started working. I can't remember all the details now, and tragically all those important posts were deleted during the last crash we had (I sincerely hope someone is backing up now). So perhaps it was oxidation in my case? Again, I just cannot remember.

 

[MacSE/30]

I tried w/ stock, IIsi and IIfx ROMs all same results. I have another set of 16 MB ROMs I'll try with them but before that I decided to wash the MoBos. I'll report back.

 

[JDW]

You mean that you removed the old caps but did not clean the board before you soldered in the new tantalums? If not, the remaining leaked capacitor fluid very well could be the source of your trouble.

 

[tt]

Cool experiments and collection of hardware!

I tried some time ago the 601 Turbo with a IIfx ROM and believe it did make the PowerMac boot chime, but nothing else happened.

 

[Unknown_K]

Can the wimpy IIsi power supply support a hot running 601 cpu? The IIci had a much stronger power supply. I recall reading that power hungry cards would not run on a IIsi with a nubus adapter (tried a known working radius rocket and no go there).

 

[Charlieman]

History tells us that Daystar had huge problems getting the Turbo 601 to run in anything other than a IIci. Three variants were produced with different part numbers (not identified on the Turbo 601 board!) for IIci, IIsi and IIvx/IIvi/Performa 600. The latter two had problems and the IIvx variant was recalled for a re-work which included new ROMs. I suspect that the IIsi variant sold in such tiny numbers that there was no re-work. Acknowledged problems include limited colours for the IIvx, sound, floppy disk timing and high temperature in the IIsi. Given that it failed to work in the models for which it was designed, we should not be surprised that it does not work in an SE/30.

There is a however. If there is a real distinction between the three variants (other than software bundle and PDS slot adapter), and additionally the re-works, further testing might be worthwhile. Especially with an enhanced PSU.

 

[Dennis Nedry]

You could test voltage levels with and without the card installed to see what effect it has.

 

[da9000]

Very interesting discussion. Another thought for helping remove any doubts about power supply problems is to trace the Turbo 601 and find out where to supply power and get power directly from the PSU (or from an external PSU) right onto the Turbo 601. But... you better know what you're doing if you're gonna do that.

This link will be helpful for those that are trying to figure out PDS slot compatibility:

http://lowendmac.com/tech/pds.shtml

And the interesting part for this discussion is:

The next Mac with a PDS was the SE/30, a compact Mac that shared the SE's case but pumped to the beat of a 16 MHz 68030 CPU. Because the 68030 had more connections than the 68000, the 68030 PDS was born in January 1989 - and that's why SE and SE/30 cards are not interchangeable.

That September, Apple introduced the Macintosh IIci, a 25 MHz workhorse. The first use of the 68030 PDS in the IIci was for a 32K level 2 cache, which used fast static memory that the CPU could access much more quickly than memory on the system board. (Except for the size of the cache, little has changed since then.) The 68030 PDS in the IIci would later accept lighting fast 68030, 68040, and even PowerPC upgrades.

Apple got a lot of use out of the 68030 PDS. The one in the SE/30 ran at 16 MHz, the one in the IIci at 25 MHz, the one in the IIsi (Oct. 1990) at 20 MHz, and the one in the IIfx (March 1990) at a blistering 40 MHz. Except for bus speed, these were electrically identical, so it was often the case that the same card would work in the SE/30, IIsi, and IIci.

"Adapterology":




http://www.applefritter.com/node/20312

http://www.applefritter.com/node/10092

http://www.applefritter.com/taxonomy/term/122

And a very informative SE/30 "modding" discussion, including the stripes problem:

http://www.applefritter.com/node/20404

@MacSE/30:

Could you post some photos of these IIsi adapters? (or at least point out which is which in the above photos?)

 

[tt]

I know someone who had it working just as a proof of concept, but I can't remember who it was, and I'm reasonably sure he didn't put the case back on, which alleviated cooling problems for the short time he did it.

Source: http://www.mail-archive.com/compact.macs@mail.maclaunch.com/msg06485.html

The highly desirable Turbo 601 was a PowerPC 601-based upgrade for most of the same models as the PowerCache and Turbo 040, but the LC series, and Macintosh II and IIx can almost certainly not use the Turbo 601. I've seen one vague report of the Turbo 601 working in an SE/30, but third-party testing has been unable to replicate this success. Both 66 and 100MHz versions were made, all with 128K of L2 cache onboard. Most commonly seen as a IIci or IIvx/Performa 600 upgrade.

Source: http://macfaq.org/hardware/cards.shtml

:b&w: