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SCSI Zip Drives?

register

Well-known member
Just a side note to the driver software used to operate the ZIP drive: There is a software suite called ZIP tools that was originally provided by iomega to use ZIP drives, but one can do without. A patched Drive Setup software (use ResEdit to write a proper entry into an unused ressource to let the software recognise the ZIP drive) will work as well, as does the famous Hard Disk Toolkit (HDT). HDT allows to create multiple volumes on one SCSI device and lets you select which to boot from upon startup, just by a key combination to specify the desired boot volume. That may come in handy if you prepare a drive with a collection of differently configured System Folders on separate volumes.
 

Phipli

Well-known member
HDT allows to create multiple volumes on one SCSI device and lets you select which to boot from upon startup, just by a key combination to specify the desired boot volume.
Can you describe what this does exactly? How do you use it?
 

register

Well-known member
Please read this old post: Setting startup disk on LC475. Unfortunately, some references to even older posts are lost. Also, currently (2023-11-12) the Wiki appears not to be available.

However, to use any drive, it has to be formatted properly to be operational on the intended host computer. Each time the computer is started, the driver for every SCSI drive has to be loaded. If no removable storage media is present in a drive at the time of startup, by default the system would not load a driver for that drive. Thus, some driver software suites include system extensions that will pre-load the necessary driver anyway. The iomega tools and also FWB Hard Disk Toolkit come with such extensions, that are to be installed in the System Folder. The extensions let the removable media mount also if it is inserted after the boot process. If such extension is not available, the drive should still work fine as long as a properly formatted media is inserted upon startup.

To select from different drives upon startup, one may use the key combo Command-Shift-Option-Delete. It might be that this will not work on every Mac. The key combo switches from the startup disk that is specified in PRAM to the next available one (just counting along the SCSI IDs). Only drives with a properly »blessed« System Folder will be available.

If the computer has a drive with multiple volumes (partitions), which you can set up using the FWB Hard Disk Toolkit, you can install or just copy and bless a bootable System Folder onto each of that volumes. Probably the Control Panel »Startup Disk« will even allow to specify one of those partitions as a Startup Disk. If you want to arbitrarily select the desired volume upon startup, you need help from HDT. Properly installed, it makes a set of key combos available. It is something like cmd-opt-shift in combination with the desired partition number on the specified drive. For example, the Mac is set up to boot from SCSI ID 2 and upon startup the key combo cmd-opt-shift-5 is depressed, than the Mac will use the fifth partion on the disk present at SCSI ID 2, as long as there is a blessed System Folder present on that volume.

If you have use for this feature, please obtain a copy of FWB HDT in the most recent version that runs on your Mac, and refer to the manual. I always use the manual as a valuable ressource to learn what to expect from a software. So, besides how to format a beer mat, I learned about other interesting features of HDT. For example, every HDT formatted disk can be password protected. Please note, that HDT password protection can easily be bypassed in the early revisions of this software.

By the way: Some 68k Macs do run properly up to version Mac OS 8.1, which supports also HFS+ instead of only HFS formatted volumes. Unfortunately, there is no (known to me) way of booting a 68k Mac from an HFS+ formatted volume. I tried this in many configurations with a maxed out Performa 630, to make better use of a giant harddisk. Whilst that machine can _mount_ HFS+ volumes _after_ startup with 8.1, it will never boot from a HFS+ formatted disk. Any of my related attempts to mix volumes with different file systems on the same harddisk were not successful on that machine, also.

→ If you succeed in putting rare features into good use, please share your insight :)
 

Phipli

Well-known member
For example, the Mac is set up to boot from SCSI ID 2 and upon startup the key combo cmd-opt-shift-5 is depressed, than the Mac will use the fifth partion on the disk present at SCSI ID 2,
Are you sure this is correct, are you confusing it with selecting disks by SCSI ID, not partitions?

I went and dug out multiple versions of the HDT manual, and found this in version 4.5 :


1000013944.jpg

This only seems to offer a way of booting a recovery partition, and says without extensions. I searched the whole manual for "hold" looking for key presses and there were no other similar instructions for doing the same with extensions enabled.

I'd be interested in knowing more.
 
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register

Well-known member
I am pretty sure I set up my PowerBook 180 that way, because I was lucky to install a then huge 500 MB harddisk instead of the stock 80 MB harddisk and wanted to experiment with different System installations. As of now, I have no physical evidence at hand, as my beloved 68k machines are in storage. It might be, that only later versions of HDT support the feature to select a specific boot volume from a partitioned disk.
 

Phipli

Well-known member
I am pretty sure I set up my PowerBook 180 that way, because I was lucky to install a then huge 500 MB harddisk instead of the stock 80 MB harddisk and wanted to experiment with different System installations. As of now, I have no physical evidence at hand, as my beloved 68k machines are in storage. It might be, that only later versions of HDT support the feature to select a specific boot volume from a partitioned disk.
Interesting shame it isn't documented in the manual.

You can install multiple OSes in different partitions and select them from the Startup Disk control panel though? That would have been an option too.

I hope it is possible because it would be useful. I tend to use huge disks with lots of partitions in my old macs, not several different disks.
 

register

Well-known member
I would love to help, but the partial amnesia of this forum combined with my own fragmented memory does not permit to quickly reference you to a complete and proven description of what would work and what not.

Anyway, please dive deeper into the documentation. I assume you have already found this version of the FWB HDT Manual. It is the only one I could quickly retrieve, as the last time I actually formatted a drive using HDT is about a dozen years ago… At least the manual covers a 1994 PPC ready version of HDT. Read from page 25 in that manual to get directions on how to partition a drive into multiple volumes that are accessible on the same Mac. I guess specifying a startup volume using the Mac's control panel »Startup Disk« should work normal on partitioned disks with multiple bootable volumes, as all volumes show up on the desktop like different physical disks. The only missing piece of information is the special key combination to arbitrarily set the boot partition upon a cold start.
 
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hellslinger

Well-known member
I have a spare SCSI Zip drive I'll sell for the cost of shipping if anyone is still interested. I just tested it a few days ago and it still works fine.
 

jmacz

Well-known member
There is a software suite called ZIP tools that was originally provided by iomega to use ZIP drives, but one can do without.

Is there a reason you would not want to use the driver/tools?

I believe the driver provides additional features like auto ejecting the disk upon restart/shutdown of the Mac. I could be mistaken, but I also vaguely remember that without the driver, the Mac treats the Zip Disk like a fixed hard disk; you need the driver to be able to eject and insert an additional disk without a restart? <-- maybe my memory is wrong.
 

Phipli

Well-known member
Is there a reason you would not want to use the driver/tools?

I believe the driver provides additional features like auto ejecting the disk upon restart/shutdown of the Mac. I could be mistaken, but I also vaguely remember that without the driver, the Mac treats the Zip Disk like a fixed hard disk; you need the driver to be able to eject and insert an additional disk without a restart? <-- maybe my memory is wrong.
In some formatting tools you can tell the disk it is ejectable media, even with Drive Setup it has a small number of ejectable media types in the list of supported media types in its resources), but I'd just use the Zip formatting tool.
 

sstaylor

Well-known member
There is a caveat with the Zip driver tools; versions later than (I think) 4.2 will crash a Mac Plus. Also, if a later driver is loaded on your system or you boot with a disk with a later version, it will update older drivers on a disk automatically when the disk is inserted.
 

RD Slaw

New member
Hellslinger,
Do you still have that zip drive you mentioned? I'm assuming it's the SCSI version? I need one to use with a vintage sampler. Thanks!
 

RD Slaw

New member
@ArmorAlley
Thanks. I've been looking at ebay but it feels like such a crapshoot whether it'll work or not. I only need it to work for a couple tasks, namely switching the storage to virtual floppy.
 

ArmorAlley

Well-known member
@ArmorAlley
Thanks. I've been looking at ebay but it feels like such a crapshoot whether it'll work or not. I only need it to work for a couple tasks, namely switching the storage to virtual floppy.
Well, if you are interested. Send me a PM and I'll see if it still works. Does it have to external or is internal OK? The plug may be a problem
 

RD Slaw

New member
Well, if you are interested. Send me a PM and I'll see if it still works. Does it have to external or is internal OK? The plug may be a problem
It needs to be external. The OS on the Akai 2000 is loaded off a floppy currently. I'm thinking to save the OS on the zip via the rear SCSI jack. Then switch out the floppy for the virtual floppy unit that swaps into the same bay. Then save the OS onto it.
 

absurd_engineering

Well-known member
yes, just a rebadged unit, and white instead of blue, but pretty unusual.
I had an Epson Zip drive back in the day, with my Power Computing machines, and got nostalgic, so went looking.

They were (unsurprisingly) more common in Japan, and I was able to find an affordable one on Yahoo! Japan (via Buyee, iirc). There's another brand that also offered a beige Zip drive in Japan, maybe Maxell?

I'd suggest looking there, in any case.
 
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