Warning about Iomega Zip Drives on eBay being advertised as SCSI (Z100S) but actually being Parallel port (Z100P) versions

[Skate323k137]

Again, though, none of this is Iomega’s concern. I’ve purchased a car programmer before that has a FireWire-style port that the instructions warn you “Do not connect to a computer”, since you might be tempted. If the instructions weren’t with it, anything could have been possible. Not the companies problem.

The JVS wiring standard for arcades (Incredibly common actually, used for Sega NAOMI (dreamcast type hardware), Namco 246/256 (PS2 hardware), etc. uses RCA audio, VGA Video, and there's a USB A Port for IO boards (controls).

Except it's not USB. It's RS-485 over a USB cable/connectors.

Making it more fun/worse/whatever, there's a generation of arcade hardware based on PC motherboards which has both USB -and- JVS present. For example a Taito TTX2 uses JVS for controls and a USB security dongle. Both plug into a USB A connector, but only one is USB.

 

[bigmessowires]

I’ve purchased a car programmer before that has a FireWire-style port that the instructions warn you “Do not connect to a computer”, since you might be tempted. If the instructions weren’t with it, anything could have been possible. Not the companies problem.

Hmm... I would say that is the company's problem. Hardware designers need to practice defensive design and be realistic about the fact that most people don't read instruction manuals unless they run into a problem. It shouldn't be possible to damage equipment simply by plugging normal cables into normal ports, and "read the manual" isn't really a defense. If you're going to design a FireWire port into something, then you need to design it such that connecting a standard FireWire computer cable won't harm anything, or else choose a different type of port for your application.

 

[LaPorta]

Hmm... I would say that is the company's problem. Hardware designers need to practice defensive design and be realistic about the fact that most people don't read instruction manuals unless they run into a problem. It shouldn't be possible to damage equipment simply by plugging normal cables into normal ports, and "read the manual" isn't really a defense. If you're going to design a FireWire port into something, then you need to design it such that connecting a standard FireWire computer cable won't harm anything, or else choose a different type of port for your application.

That’s fair, of course, but they at least left a warning. Definitely not a true analogy to the Zip issue now that I think of it.

 

[bigmessowires]

If the designer can't or won't use a different port, and there's a significant chance of customer confusion, I think the best alternative is a sticker right on the device next to the port that says something like "Not a SCSI port: do not use SCSI cable"

 

[Skate323k137]

If the designer can't or won't use a different port, and there's a significant chance of customer confusion, I think the best alternative is a sticker right on the device next to the port that says something like "Not a SCSI port: do not use SCSI cable"

This is what some arcade motherboards do, but many are completely unlabelled. Thankfully a JVS port won't try to power a USB device, but if you plug your fancy arcade IO board into a normal USB port where there's voltage, you can destroy it. As such I agree with @bigmessowires that you should never set yourself (or especially others) up for failure like that if you can help it. It's one thing to use a non standard connector or pinout in the lab, it's another to hand that device over to average consumers.

 

[chelseayr]

sorry for a slight winded reply to the latest replies..

@bigmessowires and @Skate323k137 about consumer-facing warnings, I know I have seen 'NOT PHONE' crossed-out phone symbol etched onto the metal backplate itself above what otherwise looked like a normal rj11 port onboard on some rather old 286-486 era kind of desktop computer .. wonder if that might had been onboard isdn? (knowing that theres been all kind of unusual things on motherboards even late into the p4/athlonxp era, I still wonder about that photo-nameless sis-chipset matx board which literally had both a conexant v90 modem and some more-than-basic sound n graphic&tv chips all right onboard)

and also I can't recall too well on this one but I think I have for sure seen yellow stickers covering the port on certain new boards that was something like 'NO PBX' or 'NO PoE!' sort of textual warnings .. the latter one maybe sounds like the board was designed with certain gigaethernet uses in mind and it didn't/couldn't have any kind of safeguards for "unexpected" big voltage spike ramming into it? I'm not sure so i'll defer to someone else who might actually know something

 

[mikes-macs]

I would have been angry if I bought an Iomega Zip 100 back in 1995 expecting it to be SCSI and it turned out to be not SCSI but had the same connector, (back then hardly anyone in the public knew about connector types) but I would have been even more angry if it damaged my $3000 Mac. I wonder if there were any legal actions taken back then because of the damage...

 

[chelseayr]

@mikes-macs when I was skimming through quite a bunch of old magazine scanlets (especially vintageapple's) before I did look at random samples of these classical full-page ads aside to any hardware-related q&a text sections that I somehow happened uponto and I don't think I had ever seen anyone mention the zip drive specifically, and by the same token I somehow never could ever see the zip-plus drive being mentioned anywhere (maybe it did still show up in that stores/warehouses section toward the back of the magazines but I never really took much look at these pages tho).. and on a related footnote to re physical ports, for quite a while you had a lot of fullpage ads proclaiming these 'simple' adapter that lets you connect pc parallel to your mac

 

[MrFahrenheit]

@chelseayr
This parallel adapters were printed adapters, with centronics on one end and a serial DIN connector on the other. The printer cables were not bidirectional (could not receive data back from the device), a necessary part of a storage device.

Also, on a similar topic, getting a parallel Zip drive to work on any computer without parallel ports is likely impossible. The parallel port was required to have EPP/ECP with DMA. Those functions are missing from any parallel to USB adapter I’ve found, and the one I did find, it specifically says “Note: does not work with Zip drives”.

 

[Phipli]

Also, on a similar topic, getting a parallel Zip drive to work on any computer without parallel ports is likely impossible. The parallel port was required to have EPP/ECP with DMA. Those functions are missing from any parallel to USB adapter I’ve found, and the one I did find, it specifically says “Note: does not work with Zip drives”.

There is the driver issue too - why would there be a parallel Zip driver for macs?

 

[register]

Nothing drives me more bonkers when I use a PC at work, start typing in numbers, and all that happens is the input cursor dances around…

I share this experience and resolved to install a keyboard layout software that disables Caps Lock, Num Lock and Delete keys, and also swaps Ctrl, Alt and Windows keys conveniently. On many PC keyboards it is possible to easily exchange the key caps also, to resemble a more Mac-like layout. That fixes already quite a lot if you frequently have to change from Mac to PC and vice versa. Of course, the excellent freeware Karabiner-Elements could do the same on a Mac and one may leave the PC keyboard layout untouched. However, I came from the Mac and found the PC to appear »different«, and fixed it.

 

[LaPorta]

I just don’t understand why they don’t just update the keyboards, period.

 

[MrFahrenheit]

@LaPorta

As far as I can remember, Windows saves the numlock status after restart / shutdown. It’s one of those “set it and forget it” things.

I use PCs daily and I’ve only set my numlock once, when I first create the account on that system and log in.

By default it sets it to off, according to whatever the BIOS setting is. Most BIOS also have it off. Enable Numlock on when booting and being sure to have it on when logging out should prevent it from changing back.

 

[LaPorta]

I know I'm being a pester, but...

My point is why don't they just do away with the Num Lock key/function entirely and make it the "clear" key like on Macs (or whatever else makes sense). Its purpose was superseded by arrow keys decades ago. Why keep up the nonsense?

 

[chelseayr]

@LaPorta and who (excluding linux cli powerusers for scrolllock as far as I have heard) is using these three dos-era print/scroll/break keys anymore for a long time too? I prefer the presence of visual-visible f13-f15 to simply assign more occassional user-defined macros to instead but mm
(and yes I'm looking at you too quickeys/alike users around here)

 

[trs]

@LaPorta, @chelseayr, @register, thank you for sharing your thoughts on the Iomega Zip Drive and issues with Parallel and SCSI interfaces, insight like yours is invaluable to the community and helps keep the discussion fresh and relevant.

 

[MrFahrenheit]

@LaPorta, @chelseayr, @register, thank you for sharing your thoughts on the Iomega Zip Drive and issues with Parallel and SCSI interfaces, insight like yours is invaluable to the community and helps keep the discussion fresh and relevant.

I’m curious which parts of the conversation where invaluable and keeps the discussion fresh and relevant. Could you expand on that?

 

[LaPorta]

I think the part where we mentioned the likelihood of people being AI bots.....wait, did I say that out loud?