Quadra 700 Questions

[ErikTheHack]

I'm trying to get an old mothballed Quadra 700 back going like it should be.

I've got it running System 7.6.1 and software wise everything seems to be doing quite well.

The machine has 8MB of RAM and a good hard drive that is (I think) 1GB -- partitioned in half.

Anyway, I've got a couple of mysteries I'm trying to figure out and my recollection is way too rusty to recall with certainty what was up before the old girl hit the shelf years ago.

1 -- There is a single SIMM slot adjacent to the RAM and VRAM slots that from all the schematics and take-downs I've looked at goes unidentified and in all these references is shown unpopulated. On my 700 however it IS populated with a SIMM labeled "© 1983-88 APPLE 341-0655A FD1501 9015 JAPAN". Googleing around the only reference I found was a translated link which identified it as a "SE/30-ROM SIMM". All I can say to this is WTF?

2 -- I've got the box connected to a Samsung SyncMaster 204B via a Dr. Bott 4-way ADB KVM. The only graphics resolution available with all of the VSIMMs installed is 640x480 @ 67Hz in color-depths from B&W all the way up to Millions of Colors. Oddly though some specs I found via google indicate that the on-board graphics should be capable of:

Macintosh Quadra Built-In Video, Part 3: VRAM Configurations
This is the third in a series of articles which describes the capabilities of the built-in video of the Quadra 700 and 900.

The Quadra frame buffer supports a variety of pixel depths, from 1 to 32 bits per pixel (bpp). The supported pixel depths (1, 2, 4, 8, or 32 bpp) depend on the display resolution and the amount of VRAM in the Quadra. The fully expanded capability of both Quadras is the same, i.e., both the 900 and 700 can be expanded to 2 MB of VRAM. However, note that 512K of VRAM is the minimum configuration for the Quadra 700 whereas it is 1MB of VRAM for the Quadra 900 (this is the amount of VRAM soldered on the motherboard). The Quadra 700 has 6 VRAM expansion slots, while the 900 has only 4. Also note that only 0.5 MB, 1 MB, and 2 MB configurations are supported (i.e., 1.5 MB is not supported).

The Quadra 700 and 900 can be expanded using 256K (i.e., 128K x 16) 100 nS VRAM SIMMs. These are the same as the VRAM SIMM shipped in the base configuration of the Macintosh LC, or the VRAM SIMMs used to expand an Apple 4*8 video card to an 8*24 card. Note that the 512K VRAM SIMMs used to upgrade the Mac LC will _not_ work in a Quadra. (The 256K SIMMs removed from an LC when performing a VRAM upgrade will work, however. All those old 256K VRAM SIMMs laying around from upgraded LCs can be used to upgrade Quadra 700s and 900s!) The DRAM SIMMs used to upgrade an 8*24GC video card will also not work.

The following chart lists the Quadra 700 & 900 built-in video's maximum pixel depth supported depending upon the VRAM configuration:

Display size 512K VRAM 1MB VRAM 2MB VRAM

--------- -------- --------

12-inch landscape

384 x 512

(such as 12" RGB) 8 bpp 32 bpp 32 bpp

12-inch Monochrome

640 x 480 8 bpp 8 bpp 8 bpp

13-inch RGB & VGA

640 x 480 8 bpp 8 bpp 32 bpp

SVGA

800 x 600 8 bpp 8 bpp 32 bpp

15-inch Portrait (b/w)

640 x 870 4 bpp 8 bpp 8 bpp

16" Color,

832 x 624 8 bpp 8 bpp 32 bpp

2-Page Display (b/w)

1152 x 870 4 bpp 8 bpp 8 bpp

21" Color

1152 x 870 4 bpp 8 bpp 8 bpp

PAL without convolution

underscan-640x480 8 bpp 8 bpp 32 bpp*

overscan-768x576 8 bpp 8 bpp 32 bpp*

PAL with convolution

underscan-640x480 n.a. 8 bpp 8 bpp

overscan-768x576 n.a. 8 bpp 8 bpp

NTSC without convolution

underscan-512x384 8 bpp 8 bpp 32 bpp

overscan- 640x480 8 bpp 8 bpp 32 bpp

NTSC with convolution

underscan-512x384 n.a 8 bpp 8 bpp

overscan- 640x480 n.s 8 bpp 8 bpp

*Note there are two ways to cable a PAL monitor to a Quadra; only by using the proper extended sense code are you able to achieve 32 bits per pixel. For details, refer to the previous article on Quadra video sense pinouts.

- Dale Adams

Looking for someone that knows these beasts for help and/or any suggestions.

Thanks

 

[porter]

2 -- I've got the box connected to a Samsung SyncMaster 204B via a Dr. Bott 4-way ADB KVM. The only graphics resolution available with all of the VSIMMs installed is 640x480 @ 67Hz in color-depths from B&W all the way up to Millions of Colors.

Ditch the KVM first and then try.

The Quadra detects the monitor by sense codes and only gives you the options compatible with that monitor type, if what you have plugged in is not shorting the correct pins the quadra won't correctly determine the monitors capabilities.

 

[ErikTheHack]

I was wondering about that -- reading some of the stuff it detail it seemed like that was going on.

Anyway you know to hack around that?

I've got a RADIUS video card that I suspect is doing the same thing.

Hmmm....

 

[porter]

Anyway you know to hack around that?

I use a Macintosh to VGA convertor with the little switches, that lets me select any set of sense codes I want.

I've got a RADIUS video card that I suspect is doing the same thing.

I have a fixed frequency RADIUS card that doesn't use the sense codes so is unaffected.

 

[ErikTheHack]

Mind if I ask you where you got the adaptor? That sounds like exactly what I need.

Thanks.

 

[ErikTheHack]

As for the unknown SIMM and slot -- here's a diagram of the motherboard:

[/img]

 

[porter]

Mind if I ask you where you got the adaptor? That sounds like exactly what I need.
Thanks.

Ebay, etc. Keep your eye open.

This is the kind of thing... http://homepage.mac.com/ijunghaertchen/macibmadaptor.html

 

[porter]

As for the unknown SIMM and slot

On my Quadra 700 the socket is empty, so I wouldn't worry.

You would have to look into the history of the individual box to find out why something was put in there, some custom ROM for some reason.

 

[Superdos]

As for the unknown SIMM and slot -- here's a diagram of the motherboard:

That there is a ROM SIMM slot. I too, also having a Quadra 700, have noticed this. they were originally put onto the Quadra's for a ROM upgrade, but as far as I know there are none.

From the Quadra 700 Developer notes:

"The MCU controls the Macintosh Quadra 700 1 MB ROM, whichconsists of two 4-Mbit ROMs (each ROM is a 256K x 16-bit, 150-nsdevice). A ROM SIMM socket is available for future expansion;however, when a ROM SIMM is installed in this socket, the on-board ROM will be automatically disabled.

looks to me as if it was a possible factor to them, but they were never made. I do wonder if it's possible to put a IIci or some other type of ROM SIMM in there; that might be a possible up(or down)grade.

 

[ErikTheHack]

To Quote myself:

On my 700 however it IS populated with a SIMM labeled "© 1983-88 APPLE 341-0655A FD1501 9015 JAPAN". Googleing around the only reference I found was a translated link which identified it as a "SE/30-ROM SIMM". All I can say to this is WTF?

This odd ROM SIMM came installed on my Q700.

 

[porter]

To Quote myself:

On my 700 however it IS populated with a SIMM labeled "© 1983-88 APPLE 341-0655A FD1501 9015 JAPAN". Googleing around the only reference I found was a translated link which identified it as a "SE/30-ROM SIMM". All I can say to this is WTF?

This odd ROM SIMM came installed on my Q700.

Why would you want an SE/30 ROM in a Q700? The CPUs are different and the Q700 ROM is 32bit clean.

 

[ErikTheHack]

Mind if I ask you where you got the adaptor? That sounds like exactly what I need.

For those that might also have the need I found 3 sources -- there are probably more but these were on the first google page:

http://www.jaykang.com/dbmatohpfema1.html

http://www.computercablestore.com/Mac_to_PC_Monitor_Adapter_PID945.aspx

http://www.pacificcable.com/Picture_Page.asp?DataName=A1515MF&IsListing=YES

 

[Superdos]

To Quote myself:

On my 700 however it IS populated with a SIMM labeled "© 1983-88 APPLE 341-0655A FD1501 9015 JAPAN". Googleing around the only reference I found was a translated link which identified it as a "SE/30-ROM SIMM". All I can say to this is WTF?

This odd ROM SIMM came installed on my Q700.

Why would you want an SE/30 ROM in a Q700? The CPUs are different and the Q700 ROM is 32bit clean.

Actually, that might not be an SE/30 ROM at all. Perhaps you can tell us what it says on the ROM chip or your Q700 motherboard? who knows, you just might have a prototype there or something.

 

[ErikTheHack]

Actually, that might not be an SE/30 ROM at all. Perhaps you can tell us what it says on the ROM chip or your Q700 motherboard? who knows, you just might have a prototype there or something.

Well, the stickers on the top of the soldered in chips say:

[341S0827 916] and [341S0871 919]

Not sure how via software to get info about the ROM version -- perhaps someone could tell me if there is a way? Also, is there any way to have the system report how much VRAM is installed? I could have sworn with all 6 sticks I could get color modes above 256 color with the on-board video. And now that I've pulled and put them back in it seems 256 is the top. Maybe I'm just confusing with the RADIUS card that was installed -- I've been fiddling so much I've lost track now.

 

[Dennis Nedry]

What model does it say the Mac is in "About this Macintosh"? I believe that if it was an SE/30 ROM it should say SE/30 in there.

 

[003]

To Quote myself:

On my 700 however it IS populated with a SIMM labeled "© 1983-88 APPLE 341-0655A FD1501 9015 JAPAN". Googleing around the only reference I found was a translated link which identified it as a "SE/30-ROM SIMM". All I can say to this is WTF?

This odd ROM SIMM came installed on my Q700.

Why would you want an SE/30 ROM in a Q700? The CPUs are different and the Q700 ROM is 32bit clean.

It can't be a SE/30 SIMM. 7.6.1 will not run on a Mac that is not 32-bit clean.

 

[Dog Cow]

Use ROMmie to make a dump of the ROM, if you can.

http://macgui.com/downloads/?file_id=22299

 

[Dennis Nedry]

I would imagine that someone just stuck an SE/30 ROM in there because they saw an empty ROM slot. Some Macs won't boot without a ROM SIMM, that may have been their logic in the matter.

It could very well be that the Quadra 700 recognizes that this is an SE/30 SIMM and chooses to ignore it, or maybe there is a jumper (possibly hidden) to even enable the ROM slot, similar to the IIci.

 

[Quadraman]

I have an 040 accelerator kit that includes a ROM SIMM that fits in that slot. I don't think Apple ever actually did anything with it, though. I only bought the kit because it included cooling fans for both the 68040 and a 601 upgrade board if one was present, which I have. I also moved my Q700 into a IIvx case so the hard drive shelf doesn't allow the ROM SIMM to be installed because it stands up too high. I don't need the 040 accelerator, anyway, just the cooling fans.