Quadra 700 death chime with Powermac upgrade card enabled

[error1]

I've had a Power Mac Upgrade Card in my stash of expansion cards for a long time with no computer to test it in, but I recently grabbed a Quadra 700 which should be compatible. The Quadra works fine and passes all the MacTest Pro logic board tests, and will also boot with the upgrade card installed as long as it's not enabled.

As soon as I enable it, the boot chime changes to the powermac chime, then the powermac brass death chime and I don't get any video output.
I've tried removing all RAM and VRAM simms while troubleshooting and it made no difference. I've also tried cleaning the card thoroughly with IPA and looked for lifted IC legs without seeing anything wrong.

I'd love to know more about what the Mac ROM actually tests before booting that could cause this and if there is any way to figure out which test is failing without seeing the sad mac code, I guess the CPU and ROM on the card must be working since it can play the new chimes, but maybe a cache ram chip is bad?

 

[Phipli]

I've had a Power Mac Upgrade Card in my stash of expansion cards for a long time with no computer to test it in, but I recently grabbed a Quadra 700 which should be compatible. The Quadra works fine and passes all the MacTest Pro logic board tests, and will also boot with the upgrade card installed as long as it's not enabled.

As soon as I enable it, the boot chime changes to the powermac chime, then the powermac brass death chime and I don't get any video output.
I've tried removing all RAM and VRAM simms while troubleshooting and it made no difference. I've also tried cleaning the card thoroughly with IPA and looked for lifted IC legs without seeing anything wrong.

I'd love to know more about what the Mac ROM actually tests before booting that could cause this and if there is any way to figure out which test is failing without seeing the sad mac code, I guess the CPU and ROM on the card must be working since it can play the new chimes, but maybe a cache ram chip is bad?

Make sure the card is properly seated in the connector on the board, they resist a bit. Have you repasted the CPU before refitting the heatsink, and make sure the little hook thing on the heatsink is in place properly through the hole in the PCB. The one in this photo...

 

[error1]

Yeah I've been repasting the heatsink each time, the paste gets squished pretty thin so I think the heatsink is making good contact. Thanks for pointing out the hook, I don't think that has been fully seated every time. I don't see any corrosion on the PDS slot and the card inserts fully, but I agree it's a pretty stiff connector.

I'm wondering if the three notes it is playing have any meaning or if these cards just sound a little different than the chime examples I've found online.

 

[dramirez]

were you able to fix it error1?

 

[error1]

Unfortunately no, I've left that machine alone for now. At some point I'll experiment with the power supply in case it's not delivering the power required for the ppc card and try some different sticks of RAM.

I'm curious if early boot and reading the new rom is handled by the ppc or the 68k cpu, if it's the ppc then getting the death chime means that the card is nearly working but if it's the 68k then potentially my 601 chip could be completely dead.

 

[Phipli]

Unfortunately no, I've left that machine alone for now. At some point I'll experiment with the power supply in case it's not delivering the power required for the ppc card and try some different sticks of RAM.

I'm curious if early boot and reading the new rom is handled by the ppc or the 68k cpu, if it's the ppc then getting the death chime means that the card is nearly working but if it's the 68k then potentially my 601 chip could be completely dead.

Given it is doing the Powermac chime, it can't be too far from working.

 

[MrFahrenheit]

Just a thought: you mentioned removing all RAM to test this cad.

The Quadra 700 has 4MB stock. The card requires the Mac have a minimum of 8MB.

And just to say, I totally love the crash sound. It’s like that time I threw two drums, and some cymbals over a cliff.

 

[Daniël]

I'm curious if early boot and reading the new rom is handled by the ppc or the 68k cpu, if it's the ppc then getting the death chime means that the card is nearly working but if it's the 68k then potentially my 601 chip could be completely dead.

The Startup Chimes and Death Chimes are both coming from the PowerPC Card, so that would indicate the 601 is at least alive.

 

[Phipli]

The Startup Chimes and Death Chimes are both coming from the PowerPC Card, so that would indicate the 601 is at least alive.

And the ROM on the PPC card yeah.

It's really close to working. The upgrade is starting, talking to the sound chip on the motherboard and chiming. Means the CPU, ROM, bus, sound chip, reset... Are all working.

@error1 can you share a photo of the upgrade card, and one of the upgrade PCB next to both ends of the main connector? There /might/ be some jumpers there depending on which card you have. Let's see how they're set if they exist.

 

[Phipli]

I believe you have a 33MHz bus, so you want the jumper in pins 2 and 3 (red).



If you don't do this, the CPU will try to run at 133MHz! It will likely crash shortly after starting.

 

[error1]

The card requires the Mac have a minimum of 8MB.

Oh that's interesting! Should it be able to use the onboard memory at least? I only have 4 additional 1MB simms to put in it at the moment, but I have some 16MB pcb simm kits to build. I tried a different set of 1MB sticks but it made no difference.

can you share a photo of the upgrade card

Here's the front and back, it's a slightly battered Apple upgrade card so there's no jumpers or other way to configure it that I can see. It was thrown in for free several years back when I bought a 840AV from someone because the guy no longer had any machines to put it in.

It's been soaked in IPA and scrubbed with an antistatic brush, it was way crustier when I got it. I wish I had a ultrasonic cleaner to give it a more thorough clean!

Thanks for the suggestions so far

 

[lobust]

If you haven't done so yet, zap the pram...

Do it a few times to make sure.

If there was previously a card in the lower nubus slot it can prevent the PPC card from booting until you zap the pram.

This is because any saved configuration data for that slot in the pram interferes with the PPC/68k boot setting.

I discovered this when my 700 also wouldn't boot with the PPC card, after having a supermac video card in the lower slot.

Edit:

Is it just the photo, or is that die cracked? I hope I'm wrong

Edit 2: If it chimes at all it's probably just the photo...

 

[joshc]

The die doesn't look cracked. We've already established the CPU is running on that card if its doing death chimes.

What is a problem with these is the connector - if the card doesn't sit just right, there can be problems. Worth hitting both ends of the connector , on the logicboard and on the card, with contact cleaner and scrubbing with a toothbrush and then trying again.

 

[lobust]

The die doesn't look cracked. We've already established the CPU is running on that card if its doing death chimes.

What is a problem with these is the connector - if the card doesn't sit just right, there can be problems. Worth hitting both ends of the connector , on the logicboard and on the card, with contact cleaner and scrubbing with a toothbrush and then trying again.

Yeah I skipped through the thread without reading it properly, and I'm tired, just ignore me

Not the part about zapping the pram though - that's valid and is a thing with these apparently. In fact it's the one I bought from you that I had this issue with!

 

[Phipli]

People please stop telling people that "the die looks cracked". I've had two people tell me that with working processors. These processors sometimes have colour banding in them.

You'll end up causing someone to throw out a board or something.

 

[lobust]

People please stop telling people that "the die looks cracked". I've had two people tell me that with working processors. These processors sometimes have colour banding in them.

You'll end up causing someone to throw out a board or something.

I didn't tell anyone that it was cracked, I asked if it was.

And then I edited my post as soon as I read it was chiming...

The four diagonal lines into the corners of the package look very sharp on that yellow package compared to the blue one and it caught my eye.
Honest mistake.

 

[MrFahrenheit]

Oh that's interesting! Should it be able to use the onboard memory at least? I only have 4 additional 1MB simms to put in it at the moment, but I have some 16MB pcb simm kits to build. I tried a different set of 1MB sticks but it made no difference.




Here's the front and back, it's a slightly battered Apple upgrade card so there's no jumpers or other way to configure it that I can see. It was thrown in for free several years back when I bought a 840AV from someone because the guy no longer had any machines to put it in.

It's been soaked in IPA and scrubbed with an antistatic brush, it was way crustier when I got it. I wish I had a ultrasonic cleaner to give it a more thorough clean!View attachment 64681View attachment 64682

Thanks for the suggestions so far

Yes, it should be fine with 4MB onboard plus 4x1MB SIMMs.

 

[joshc]

People please stop telling people that "the die looks cracked". I've had two people tell me that with working processors. These processors sometimes have colour banding in them.

You'll end up causing someone to throw out a board or something.

I think let’s assume good intentions of everyone here. lobust was trying to help and did edit their post twice to clarify. It is an easy mistake to make. This makes it sound like they’re running around telling people to bin their 601s which doesn’t seem fair.

 

[Phipli]

This makes it sound like they’re running around telling people to bin their 601s which doesn’t seem fair.

Apologies it was meant to be addressed to people (hence "People please") in general as I've seen it a lot in the last few months, including about my own perfectly functional boards that I wasn't asking about.

To be on the receiving end of it is disheartening because there is likely naff all you can do about it. Combined that it hasn't been an issue in any of the times it was raised as being seen in a photo.... It's a very terminal false positive.

 

[lobust]

I think let’s assume good intentions of everyone here. lobust was trying to help and did edit their post twice to clarify. It is an easy mistake to make. This makes it sound like they’re running around telling people to bin their 601s which doesn’t seem fair.

Thank you. I'd had a long day and was very tired, and should have read the whole thread more carefully before I posted, but I had no ill intentions!
Unfortunately by the time Phipli brought it up the edit window on my post had closed so I couldn't go back and delete that part of it.

Back to the actual point, I had this exact issue with the PPC card that I bought from you (was that last year? I think it was...), and initially thought it was faulty as I couldn't get it to boot in either my Quadra 700 or 800.

The service source manual for the PPC upgrade card suggests clearing the pram if there are boot problems, so I did so. I can confirm that I had to do it more than once before it worked! But it did work, and the card booted perfectly thereafter. I later read somewhere else that this was caused by the slot configuration data, and I had indeed had video cards and scsi cards installed in both of these machines prior to trying the PPC card.

It seems a bit bizarre that the 040 PDS slot and the lower nubus slot interact in this way. I'm not sure if they share the same slot address or just the same configuration data location in pram.