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Project: getting Leopard running on a G4-upgraded Beige G3..

The Macster

Well-known member
So as you may know, I've managed to source a Sonnet G4 upgrade CPU for my Beigey, which means that I am now of course very interested in getting Leopard installed on it! :D I can't see any reason why it should be impossible, given that once you've got AltiVec it's just a case of getting the right drivers for the system into Leopard (which is no different than getting the Intel release of Leopard to work on non-Apple systems, and we know that is perfectly possible), I'm just going to need lots of help from you guys! (i.e. people who know lots about OS X :) ) I have put my important questions in bold - please help out if you can, and hopefully we can win Round 3 in the Beige Macs vs Apple war! :D (sadly, looking round the web there seems to be very little interest in these old machines nowadays, it's all Sawtooth-this Digital Audio-that, so I hope you can help me out as no-one else seems able/willing to)

So, I understand that the issue is that Leopard crashes on G4-upgraded G3s with an error related to it not being able to find drivers for the system (I suppose Apple realised that G3s could still be made to live on into the Leopard age if they were given G4 upgrades, so they thought they'd better remove the drivers from the DVD as well as compile it all for AltiVec, just to make sure :p ) So the issue is what drivers need to be added to Leopard, and where to get them from, or is there more to this than that? And the drivers we are talking about are .kexts, or is there more to it than that also?

With .kext files, I can see we have two sources: the Apple Tiger kexts and the XPostFacto kexts. Of course, both of these are designed for Tiger, so will they need to be modified in some way to work on Leopard? And which kexts (from Tiger and/or XPF) will be needed to provide support for the Beige G3? I found that these (below) are the kexts that come with XPF, however I have little idea what any of these do - which are relevant to the Beige G3? (presumably the ones like PowerSurge and SCSI ones are irrelevant, but what else?) Did Tiger itself contain any relevant kexts that we will also need, or had it also had all of the Beige kexts stripped out of it?

Code:
AppleCurio.kext
AppleGrandCentral.kext
OpenPMU.kext
AppleOHare.kext
OHareATA.kext
AppleMaceEthernet.kext
ApplePowerSurgePE.kext
ApplePowerStarPE.kext
ApplePowerExpressPE.kext
PowerSurgeCPU.kext
PowerStarCPU.kext
PatchedAppleNVRAM.kext
PatchedIOSCSICDDrive.kext
PatchedSCSIDeviceType05.kext
PatchedNDRVSupport.kext
OWCCacheConfig.kext
OpenOWScreamerAudio.kext
GossamerDeviceTreeUpdater.kext
Once we know what kexts are needed, should they just go in /System/Library/Extensions on the DVD (for booting into the installation) and then again on the hard drive once Leopard is installed on it? I don't suppose there's any way of integrating them into the installation so that they don't have to be added manually once it's installed?

Thanks in advance! :)

 

Bolle

Well-known member
i definetly want to see this done...

I´d get a G4 for m beige systems the, too...

to the kexts you listed...

most of them are only for the "real" beigeys arent they? (talking of 7300-9600) and your g3 is a gossamer, eh?

EDIT: shit... should´ve read your post more in detail ;)

 

Bolle

Well-known member
Code:
AppleCurio.kext                not needed...
AppleGrandCentral.kext                  not needed...
OpenPMU.kext
AppleOHare.kext                           not needed...
OHareATA.kext            
AppleMaceEthernet.kext 
ApplePowerSurgePE.kext              not needed...
ApplePowerStarPE.kext                   not needed...
ApplePowerExpressPE.kext                  not needed...  BTW: wtf? there are kexts for the PEx? 
PowerSurgeCPU.kext                       not needed...
PowerStarCPU.kext                      not needed...
PatchedAppleNVRAM.kext            
PatchedIOSCSICDDrive.kext
PatchedSCSIDeviceType05.kext
PatchedNDRVSupport.kext
OWCCacheConfig.kext                         not needed...
OpenOWScreamerAudio.kext
GossamerDeviceTreeUpdater.kext                 definetly needed
for the blank ones im not sure... but i think they may come in handy ;)

EDIT: I´d love to see Leo on the 7300-9600 macs with G4 cpu ;)

 

SiliconValleyPirate

Well-known member
Has anyone got any ideas what you would need to get a Blue & White working? The install image for Lepard craps out right at the kernel boot stage on the B&W I have claiming there's no driver for the machine (a fair point as there likely isn't!). I'd dearly love to get the B&W running |Leopard so I can use it as a Leopard server :)

 

Franklinstein

Well-known member
Seriously, kexts for the PowerExpress? That never made it out of prototype or initial production stage, did it? I'd love to get my hands on one regardless. Maybe somebody over at OWC had one and decided that running OS X it would kick some ass.

 

The Macster

Well-known member
Code:
AppleCurio.kext                not needed...
AppleGrandCentral.kext                  not needed...
OpenPMU.kext
AppleOHare.kext                           not needed...
OHareATA.kext            
AppleMaceEthernet.kext 
ApplePowerSurgePE.kext              not needed...
ApplePowerStarPE.kext                   not needed...
ApplePowerExpressPE.kext                  not needed...  BTW: wtf? there are kexts for the PEx? 
PowerSurgeCPU.kext                       not needed...
PowerStarCPU.kext                      not needed...
PatchedAppleNVRAM.kext            
PatchedIOSCSICDDrive.kext
PatchedSCSIDeviceType05.kext
PatchedNDRVSupport.kext
OWCCacheConfig.kext                         not needed...
OpenOWScreamerAudio.kext
GossamerDeviceTreeUpdater.kext                 definetly needed
for the blank ones im not sure... but i think they may come in handy ;)

EDIT: I´d love to see Leo on the 7300-9600 macs with G4 cpu ;)

That list of kexts is a list of XPF kexts that I found on a website, so presumably the PowerExpress kext does come with XPF though I can't be sure, someone would need to check this.

Anyway, so is what we're thinking that the relevant kexts from XPF that you highlighted would need to be put into Leopard for it to work – would none from Tiger be required (as that deosn't support the Beigey anyway, unless they hadn't stripped everything out and there are some that we need in there?), and would they need no modification for Leopard to use them?

 

The Macster

Well-known member
Anyone got any thoughts apart from just putting in the above kexts from XPF, unmodified? Come on guys, I'm sure lots of you are OS X gurus, please don't be afraid to throw your ideas in the ring! :) I'm still a little unclear which kext(s) exactly are the ones that OS X looks for when it starts to boot and panics if it can't find one relating to your system? (unless it's the GossamerDeviceTreeUpdater one, although isn't changing the Device Tree just changing the info passed to the Installer eg the model ID, or does this also load drivers for the Gossamer?) I would definitely not need any from the Tiger disc as well as from XPF?

 

SiliconValleyPirate

Well-known member
In a word, No. I think you need to stop thinking about it and try something! It's basically gonna be a case of 'try one, see what crashes' until you get the Installer to run. I think that's probably how Ryan worked it out for XPF. Good ole' experimental investigation [:D] ]'>

You likely will need drivers from the Tiger DVD also as there is a lot of hardware that's been dropped from early G3/G4 PCI only machines, to prevent them running. I'm really not sure of the specifics, I'd need to find a list of the hardware chips on the relevant systems. I'd think a PCI video card would be a must also.

 

madmax_2069

Well-known member
i dont think there was drivers in tiger for the Beige G3, that is why xpostfacto installed a few support files and a boot loader.

now there was drivers in tiger for the B&W and Yikes and above.

if my AIO was still in use i would put the list of kext that xpostfacto installs and tiger uses.

oh i almost forgot, there would need to be a way for the OS to work with the old world rom of the Beige G3

 

The Macster

Well-known member
Is the boot loader that XPF installs just a means of making it boot with extensions from both the DVD and the hard drive when you first boot Tiger to install it, or is it required for other things too? (ie would you need a modified loader even if you made a DVD with all the necessary extensions on it?)

Do any of the XPF extensions provide OldWorld support or had they just forgotten to remove it from Tiger? (how much does this matter, as I thought the Mac OS ROM is more of a Classic thing anyway, OS X doesn't really use the ROM?)

Thanks for the input so far everyone! :)

 

alk

Well-known member
oh i almost forgot, there would need to be a way for the OS to work with the old world rom of the Beige G3
Absolutely not. OS X doesn't use the on-board ROM of any Mac at all! This is what makes it possible to use slave drives on Rev A beige G3s in OS X but not in OS 9 - OS X bypasses the on-board ROM with software loaded from the hard drive.

Peace,

Drew

 

Quadraman

Well-known member
Has anyone got any ideas what you would need to get a Blue & White working? The install image for Lepard craps out right at the kernel boot stage on the B&W I have claiming there's no driver for the machine (a fair point as there likely isn't!). I'd dearly love to get the B&W running |Leopard so I can use it as a Leopard server :)
Do you have it installed and it won't run or you can't get it to install at all? I know there are at least two checks that the installer does. One for a G3 that refuses to install if it finds one and another for a CPU speed below 867mhz, which also refuses to install if it is found. You can disable these, which is how many people managed to get it to install on slower G4 machines, but it won't run on a G3 at all since it requires Altivec. I do not believe you can circumvent that. The fact that the B&W is not bootable from USB/FW external drives and does not support target disc mode also makes it difficult as one of the popular workarounds is to install it to an external drive from a supported machine, connecting to an unsupported machine then cloning the install to the internal HD and another is to install it using TDM. The B&W is really handicapped when it comes to trying to do a Leopard install, even if you have a G4 upgrade. The PCI video is also going to be a problem unless you plan to use it as a headless server.

 

The Macster

Well-known member
I now have a copy of Leopard and have been looking into this again as I really really really really want to get this working - here it says someone has got it to work on a G4-upgraded iMac G3 - how is this possible, as the iMac G3 also suffers from this "cannot find platform drivers" error doesn't it?

Where exactly are the platform drivers, eg what kext, if ones appropriate for older Macs need to be inserted into the Leopard disc? Does Tiger have platform drivers for the Beige even though it wasn't supported, as none of the XPF extensions look likely to be such a thing?

 

Quadraman

Well-known member
If you look under the one example of someone installing to a G4 upgraded iMac, you will see two examples of attempts to install to a G4 upgraded B&W that failed. I do not believe it is going to be possible to install to a G4 upgraded B&W or even a Yikes! G4 as we haven't seen anyone doing a successful install to those either. They share a motherboard with the B&W with only a few changes, so it is not likely.

 

iMac600

Well-known member
Has anyone actually tried adding "AppleHeathrow.kext" and "HeathrowATA.kext", because i'm fairly certain they're needed to actually boot it off the HD as the Gossamer uses the Heathrow ATA controller.

If it's already been mentioned then I apologize, i'm busy at the moment so I haven't quite read over all the thread.

 

Bolle

Well-known member
I dont think taht its the ATA controller taht is the problem here... I tried leo on my B/W with G4 and it starts to boot the OS but panics right after the little spinning thingy appears uder the apple logo... in verbose mode it says something like "PowerMacintosh 1.1 - platform not supported"... so i guess there has to be done some major worl to get it running on there... :/

still have to try it on my beige...

but if it even wont work on a B/W?

what confuses me a little bit is that it runs on G4 upgraded iMacs, because their architecture is more similar to the older architecture of the beige... whereas the PISMO is more similar to the B/W... ?

 

madmax_2069

Well-known member
oh i almost forgot, there would need to be a way for the OS to work with the old world rom of the Beige G3
Absolutely not. OS X doesn't use the on-board ROM of any Mac at all! This is what makes it possible to use slave drives on Rev A beige G3s in OS X but not in OS 9 - OS X bypasses the on-board ROM with software loaded from the hard drive.

Peace,

Drew
i know that, but that isnt where i was getting at, but oh well

 
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