Problems with IIsi and Portrait Display

[FrancescoDS]

I finally managed to put together a system made by a IIsi, Portrait Display and relative card and cable. I love the weirdness of that display!

Everything works except for a little quirk: the monitor displays everything "taller" and "narrower" than it should, see attached image.

I did some research and came across this interesting thread:





My Portrait Display card is a 820-5037- revision A, 1987, 630-4179 but on the left side it reads "Workstation video card" and not "Workstation/Portrait Video card" (revision B like you see on TimHD pictures in that thread).

To make a long story short:

- am I doing something wrong on the software side? I also upgraded the System from 7.1 to 7.5 with no results (according to what Joethezombie writes, everything should just work right out of the box)
- am I using the correct video card for this monitor? I haven't been able to find clear information on this.

Hints and suggestions are always welcome. I know that this configuration is not a rare or supercool one but.... I like it! 

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

That's the TPD res on FPD display scrunch, the opposite of FPD res on TPD display s  t  r  e  t  c  h. You need a Portrait Card if you want 8bit grayscale the easiest way with the cable you have. Someone here will probably be able to sell you one, they're a lot more common than working Portraits.

You can just hook it up to the onboard video port of the IIsi for 4bit grayscale until you decide if you want the extra depth on that gorgeous display. You will. For that you'll need to find a DA-15 to (Apple)13W3 cable or an adapter for your 13W3 to 13W3 Portrait/Workstation Cable to the DA-15 video connector on the IIsi. You DO NOT want to use a Sun 13W3 cable or adapter. The pinouts are different. Most NuBus video cards are compatible with the Portrait Display and for them you'll need the same cable or cable/adapter combo.

edit: just read that you don't think it's super cool, it is. Many of the gang here are hoping to score a Portrait Display. Your IIsi is the perfect height for Portrait Display ergonomics. The other Macintosh II series cases are a tad too high for comfort as is the DuoDock. The Quadra 605 is a tad too low, but the LC475 is the next best thing to the IIsi in my book, setting the Portrait up at a jaunty angle as it does.

 

[FrancescoDS]

Thanks a lot, now everything is clearer!

I will definitely look for a Portrait video card here, it looks easier than getting the right adapter. As you said, SUN cables and adapters do not work, guess how I know about that... :-(

I think this system is über-cool and it is the piece of my collection that I love most. Yes, a TAM is more valuable and important but I like weird stuff and I have a low budget. Plus, I have a wonderful wife who lets me display all my Macs in the living room, quite frankly I can't ask for more...

edit: by the way, I also have a High Resolution video card lying around which has a 13w3 connector, maybe it can drive the Portrait Display too...

 

[FrancescoDS]

Ops, it's the Two Page Monochrome Display Card that has a 13W3 connector, not the High Resolution...

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

You're welcome, and welcome aboard, I see this subject would be all four of your posts to date.

If you already have a Sun 13W3 to 13W3 cable, you have the makings for a pair of 13W3 to DA-15 cables. Snag the pinouts and we can work out how to do the conversion most efficiently in a Peripheral or Hacks forum thread. I've got a started, but stalled Apple DE-15 to four way switchbox to 13W3 cable for my Portrait somewhere in the boxes. I scored an Apple Cable for direct connection to the DuoDock and have procrastinated about KVM development for use of three other Macs with my DuoDock+ supported Portrait.



Three are already KVM'd to the main panel of my 135 degree multiple workstation display unit with the fourth cable hooked up to a NetBook.  My Portrait conversion box is based on a DA-15 game oriented cable system, but there's no reason HD-15 couldn't be mixed with DA-15 using a common DB-25 manual switchbox.

 

[FrancescoDS]

Wow, what a setup! I love the DuoDock too, such a weird piece of equipment!

I am not that skilled to build my own switchbox (I wish I could) but so far I have:

- one DB13W3 WorkstationVideo to PC Type HD15 cable

- one HD15 to DB13W3 Male Female Adapter.

So basically I can physically connect the IIsi onboard video to the Portrait Display but of course the monitor is totally out of sync.
According to what you said I might be able to tear the cable apart (on the HD15 side), swap a few cables and solder them to a new DA-15 male connector so that I can use the IIsi onboard video card with the Portrait Dislay, am I getting things right? That would be a great solution while I wait to buy a Portrait video card...

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

Wow, what a setup! I love the DuoDock too, such a weird piece of equipment!

Thanks, it used to be a 360 degree setup when I had it in my living room with the coffee table sitting next to the chair.

I am not that skilled to build my own switchbox (I wish I could) but so far I have:

It's easier than modding a cable in my book.

According to what you said I might be able to tear the cable apart (on the HD15 side), swap a few cables and solder them to a new DA-15 male connector so that I can use the IIsi onboard video card with the Portrait Dislay, am I getting things right?

Yep, but the switchbox is more useful.

That would be a great solution while I wait to buy a Portrait video card..

If 4-bit grayscale will do you can use your NuBus Adapter for a more interesting or better 24-bit color card which would also do 8-bit grayscals.

 

[FrancescoDS]

It's easier than modding a cable in my book.

Interesting. Let me do a quick search to understand if I can build one or modify an existing one.

Pictures of the 360 degrees setup? :astonished:

 

[FrancescoDS]

I tried to buy a used DB-15 to 13W3 cable on eBay but it sold for more than $60!

I have found a reasonably priced DB-15 connector like the one attached and I'll try to cut the SUN 13W3 cable that I already have and connect it to the DB-15.

Still looking for some info about the pin-out.

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

If you don't find it I'll try to get at buzzing my Portrait Cable. Interesting connector, screw down contacts? Got linkage?

Solder cup terminated connector is the easiest way to build a reliable cable.

https://www.matronics.com/aeroelectric/articles/dsubs/d_solder.html



https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Pcs-DB-15-15-Pin-Dual-Line-Solder-Cup-Type-Male-D-sub-Connector-/310738607372

edit: we should consider using the HD-15/VGA connector with an adapter for max flexibility.

Found an interesting link to YouBoobTube videos on soldering.

https://dxnews.com/forum/forum/technical-forum/1693-basic-soldering

Solder Cup Video

 

[FrancescoDS]

My idea was to do the testing on the screw down connector and if it works I'll solder a proper connector with a heat-shrinkable sleeve.

So far the only documentation about the pin-out is this:

http://old.pinouts.ru/VideoCables/MacVideoToVGA_pinout.shtml

http://www.apple2.org/Ports/#MacintoshII

It seems like pin 4,7 and 10 are the "sense" pin that allow the OS to recognize the connected monitor.

It would be great if you could find out how the pins are connected in your cable, that's the only way to make sure the cable will be 100% working.

If I solve this problem then the next step is setting up a switch-box as you suggested (and a VGA connector too).

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

Sounds like a plan, order it up and let me know when it's scheduled to arrive.

 

[FrancescoDS]

I will get it next monday, in the meanwhile I'll cut the 13W3 cable.

Thanks for your help!

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

http://www.apple2.org/Ports/#MacintoshII

Yep, your first link has the pinout you need, I'll buzz mine to double check the info.

 

[FrancescoDS]

It seems like a standard 13W3 connector has this pin-out:

http://what-when-how.com/display-interfaces/standards-for-analog-video-part-ii-the-personal-computer-display-interfaces-part-2/



while an Apple 13W3 connector has this pin-out:

http://www.angelfire.com/sc/anky/

 

[FrancescoDS]

I got the connector today!

Night Stalker, please let me know about your cable pin-out so that I can replicate that on my cable.

Hope I won't fry the CRT, it's very difficult to get a working one...

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

10/4, it's my weekend off and I might even be able to get it done today, I'll try to do so.

BTW, it's jt (lower case) or Trash. Night Stalker refers to the the make believe ranks from the beginnings of the 68KMLA. Have never changed my customized, link embedded sig.

AC-130 Spectre Gunship: 55-0011, one of the first served in Vietam through Desert Storm, was named Night Stalker. C130 and other cargo planes are less ;than affectionately referred to as trash haulers by some. That's a night pic of the 40mm in action of the later H series.

Night Stalker:

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

OK, found the compact digital multimeter I only use for its continuity test beeps. Talk about overkill! snagged a couple of femal header jumper wires and tinned the leads for use on the pins tomorrow.

@FrancescoDS thanks for the handy link. That's the TPD cable pinout, so I expect a bit different sense pin arrangement for the Portrait. Eyes are shot for tonight, too much peering over teensy objects ,figuring out what they were, where to store them away or whether to just chuck them in the process of clearing/organizing the work surfaces. I HATE THIS!

I've got the morning to play, car's still in the shop.

 

[FrancescoDS]

Thanks for your help jt and take your time, I am not in a hurry but just curious to see if the whole thing works.

Interesting story about the C-130 and I love the film grain in the first picture!