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Presenting -- Classic Mac Networking Guide 3.0!

Mk.558

Well-known member
After three months of work (averaging about four hours per day), I'm pleased to present Classic Mac Networking, version 3.0.

It's been many hours of testing, writing, rewriting, rewriting again (like the Emergency Network Access Disks section has been rewritten at least twice), getting frustrated with the HTML W3C validator, and so forth.

I do believe that almost anybody in this "business" (???) should be able to learn a couple of things from the Guide, and that's what I wrote it for. A rather bad case of OCD led me to try to cover all the areas (like we know that pseudo-PPP dialup will work with eth0, but what about wlan0? Someone's gotta find out, just to be sure) and this means that this Guide should be useful for many individuals from here on out.

I can't say enough how much protocol7 means to me for the Netatalk section. Here's what I was originally going to say about Netatalk until he graciously provided his notes:

LinuxNote: Netatalk 3.x does not support AppleTalk (afpd) networking; 2.2.4 was the last version to do so. See here. You may have to compile it from source if your repository has been updated to the 3.x version.

Previous testing by installing Netatalk from source repositories was only successful in connecting to 7.5.5 with OT 1.3 enabled. At this present time, attempts to compile and build the Netatalk 2.2.4 source code into a working element were not successful. In prior versions of this Guide, the procedure was demonstrated that produced the results that worked with 7.5.5. However, because the Linux landscape is a highly dynamic, fluid environment, and the update to Netatalk 3.x, requires that we skip this section until further research concerning the methods to compile Netatalk from source. The prior version demonstrated used Ubuntu 11.10, which is not even an LTS system, so the relevance of such a demonstration will quickly go out of date.

To compile without the use of apt-get, which only works for releases still supported and that have Netatalk in their repositories, you will need to download the source code and the binary of the Berkeley DB database software (requires a free account). Make sure your compiler is at least version 2.7.95, type "gcc -v" in Terminal to find out, otherwise the Berkeley DB binary won't compile. Owing to a lack of support in this area, we are precluded from covering this area until further research and testing is conducted, because it's not a good idea to give tips or procedures on expired operating systems like 10.04LTS -- all of which installed Netatalk from the source repositories -- which are out of date and no longer supported. Despite this, we do know it to be possible.
In contrast, the updated information has allowed me to write the Netatalk section with the amount of detail that should allow just about anybody who "can sort of figure it out" level of computing expertise to get it going, even if they've never used Linux before.

I hope you're able to find the time to wander over to the site and learn some things. In the meantime, I can entertain Q/A, additional help, (I'll be on IRC for the next 7 days) but first I have to take a drink...

 

Bunsen

Admin-Witchfinder-General
This guide is amazing. Thread stickied.

Is it OK if I change the title to "Classic Mac Networking Guide"?

 

protocol7

Well-known member
Bookmarked! There's a ton of great info in there.

For Windows, it's possible to install Services for Macintosh on Windows 2000 Pro or XP. You need a copy of Windows 2000 Server to access the required files however. But I found netatalk to be more compatible.

 

Mk.558

Well-known member
This guide is amazing. Thread stickied.
Is it OK if I change the title to "Classic Mac Networking Guide"?
Well there is a thread already stickied in the Compact Mac forum that is kind of like my changelog...

Bookmarked! There's a ton of great info in there.
For Windows, it's possible to install Services for Macintosh on Windows 2000 Pro or XP. You need a copy of Windows 2000 Server to access the required files however. But I found netatalk to be more compatible.
Really? By more "compatible", would that mean like doing that means it won't work with MacTCP users, or...? I would have never thought that, I might have to try it out. I do have a donor Windows XP system.

 

NJRoadfan

Well-known member
For PCs, PCMacLan is likely the best solution. It works with my Apple IIgs via a Shiva Fastpath 5 without a problem. I have also used DAVE to access Windows/SMB/CIFS file and printer shares under classic Mac OS.

The Apple II crowd came up with a pre-configured virtual machine (or Raspberry Pi) running netatalk 2.2.4 that supports net booting, with an obvious focus on the Apple IIgs. It should also be compatible with classic Macs. http://appleii.ivanx.com/a2server/

Personally I have always used Localtalk-to-Ethernet bridges when networking my classic Macs that lack Ethernet. It should be noted that the Shiva/Kinetics Fastpath series and the Cayman Systems GatorBox are the only two bridges that can properly route MacIP (TCP/IP over Localtalk) straight out of the box. The more commonly available Dayna adapters only route AppleTalk. If you have a Mac running the Localtalk Bridge Control Panel, I have heard rumors that running Open Transport on the machine allows it to route MacIP, otherwise there is IPNetRouter.

 

Mk.558

Well-known member
Neat. I wonder if there's a way to convince them to remake one for classic macs, as I couldn't get 2.2.4 to work with ddp. A Raspberry Pi file server that serves out the SD card sounds great to me, but then so does a VM install too. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I also did a test run of sharing the Internet in OS X out via the Ethernet jack to an AFP bridge to see if I could get WAN access that way. No dice. The only way I know of is yes the real bridges, IPNetRouter, Apple Internet Router (although I'd need a manual to get it set up), LocalTalk Bridge (haven't tested if it allows WAN access), or something else.

 

krye

Well-known member
Awesome work. You should write a book. Or put it out in iBooks format. I'd give you a buck for it.

 

protocol7

Well-known member
Really? By more "compatible", would that mean like doing that means it won't work with MacTCP users, or...? I would have never thought that, I might have to try it out. I do have a donor Windows XP system.
It's a bit hazy now. I think I was unable to connect to the SFM share with some systems, while I had no trouble with netatalk. It worked OK with System 7.5.3 anyway as I used it when I was installing Copland (you can see the Shared Folder on the desktop).

I had it running on my XP bootcamp partition as my PC was running Windows 7. Moving to netatalk made more sense for me as I had more stuff on the PC that could be shared out.

 

Mk.558

Well-known member
I could convert it to epub, but then I'm not so sure about updates. Actually I considered a CSS-free version for older computers and Internet Explorer, but then I canceled it. I have never written HTML before until this thing, and ePub isn't something I've messed with before either, especially since there are enlarged images and tables -- not sure if that will work right on most devices.

mcdermd has a nice arrangement where it's extremely easy to update it with just SFTP, I use FileZilla.

There isn't much more I'd need to update, other than if I get some breaking news about what a FastPath or Gatorbox can actually do (i.e. allow a Plus with System 7 to mount a 10.6 server, etc).

 

NJRoadfan

Well-known member
There isn't much more I'd need to update, other than if I get some breaking news about what a FastPath or Gatorbox can actually do (i.e. allow a Plus with System 7 to mount a 10.6 server, etc).
They are for the most part routers. Besides the ability to route TCP/IP, the Fastpath and Gatorbox can route DECNet. The Gatorbox had the ability to setup NFS shares as AFP shares. There was also a way to connect AppleShare printers to LPR too.

http://www.unix-ag.uni-kl.de/~pcfe/Gatorbox/

http://www.walshcomptech.com/fastpath5/

http://retro.icequake.net/fastpath/

 

Mk.558

Well-known member
Apparently the LocalTalk Bridge software can do the same thing if you have OT enabled on the host/bridge mac.

I don't have a "Beige G3" (or 10.6+) with 9.2, so if anybody would like to have a go at seeing if some old Mac with System 6 can mount a 10.6 Mac and access the internet, that'd be interesting to know. Those TCP/IP bridges are not easily found around.

 

NJRoadfan

Well-known member
You won't be able to mount 10.6 shares on a System 6 Mac. You need a machine that supports AFP over TCP/IP ("AppleShare over IP") to connect to it. Apple gradually phased out support for the actual AppleTalk/Ethertalk network protocol in OS X. 10.4 was the first to drop AFP over Appletalk (both client and server) and printer support finally died in 10.6.

 

Mk.558

Well-known member
Well the 9.2 system will have AFP over TCP/IP, so I was interested if the possibility was that LocalTalk Bridge could route that kind of traffic.

 

NJRoadfan

Well-known member
I don't see why it wouldn't work. The only difference is the AFP packets are carried via TCP/IP instead of AppleTalk. As long as the Localtalk-to-Ethernet bridge forwards TCP/IP packets between the networks its fine. However, it will NOT convert those TCP/IP-encapsulated AFP packets to Appletalk-encapsulated packets.

 

Mk.558

Well-known member
I'll run a test soon and see what it will do. Windows 2K Server and Netatalk I'll test alongside for a good idea of what it can/can't do, since an "ideal" classic mac setup would be something like an SE with accelerator, dual floppies & HDD with max ram, then something else more capable like a beige G3 for everything else.

 

insaneboy

Well-known member
Since I'm switching from physical macs to emulation for my classic mac fix. I've started to employ the same tricks I used to appletalk my PB180 to 10.5 server. and it works in sheep shaver! (running OS 7.6.1, because my OS 9 disk is 9.2.1 which is incompatible :( )

this weekend I'm going to see if I can use that to make MacIP work for my plus... yeah I know I'm being all wacky, but hey, it's fun!

The sharepoint(vintage) on the desktop is coming from my 10.5 server machine in the basement.

Untitled-1.png

 

Mk.558

Well-known member
Well, I doubt it'll work, but someone has to give it a shot...

In fact, half the Guide has been mainly trial and error. E.G. Can a Mac with a 800K compatible drive which can't read 400K MFS by reason of the SSW still write out a 400K MFS disk image? (yes) How do I get Netatalk to share out a share for Guests (the LCII I was using had no keyboard so I couldn't login as a user, and Linux doesn't like empty password fields) -- nobody mentions it anywhere? (shown) Can Rawrite or OmniFlop read a DC 4.2 disk image? (yes, but it won't be written correctly, so effectively, no) Can System 7 be installed by copying the installation media to folders and installing that way? (yes) ...and so on.

Some things just have to be tried, nothing else can be done.

I'll be releasing another update in a week or so, if it gets done on time. ;D

 

Mk.558

Well-known member
I'll run a test soon and see what it will do. Windows 2K Server and Netatalk I'll test alongside for a good idea of what it can/can't do, since an "ideal" classic mac setup would be something like an SE with accelerator, dual floppies & HDD with max ram, then something else more capable like a beige G3 for everything else.
Well I was going to try this out but the LCII died. No activity from the unit when powered up -- display turns on, but that's it. No HDD activity, FDD noise, gong, nothing.

Maybe someday I could give it a shot. Basically you have a [10.5 Mac]<->[LocalTalk Bridge Mac with 9.2]<->[Mac Plus or similar].

 
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