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PowerBook 3400c Repair Stories

raoulduke

Well-known member
For documentation purposes, the issue with the disk icon not popping u,p when the screen and cursor would, was located in a CMOS chip. Now I'm having problems with the HD port and trackpad. It's possible they are at least partly power related but I think there are issues with a row of two cups in the lower left part of the board.

That pic is not of the same board - and the chip intended from that pic is the Sony. I think this board's chip is a Hyundai.

The two TI chips may be partly at fault for the HD issues.

 
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Byrd

Well-known member
Check the HD and trackpad ribbon, connector and reseat all.  You need to reseat both cables quite firmly and ensure the latch goes down properly.  The trackpad is just an ADB device so if an external mouse works it's probably just the cable.

Try another 2.5" IDE HD (or a PCMCIA to CF adapter card - the 3400 will boot off it)

Good to hear you got further with it, and patience grasshopper :)  Anything "washed" needs 5+ days sitting in a sunny spot in your house (or in front of a ducted heater vent) to be considered fully dry.  Hair dryer isn't enough.

 
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raoulduke

Well-known member
I think you may be right.  [it's worth noting I had removed and replaced (i.e. reseated) everything way prior to this so if there's a connectivity issue it's deeper or more latent.]  One of the HD ribbons partially recognized one drive.  The other didn't recognize either.  I washed one and now it doesn't seem to do anything.  How do I possibly find a compatible cable...?  [is it a semi-standard interface?  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-PowerBook-G4-A1139-IDE-Hard-Drive-Connector-Cable-821-0393-A-632-0358-01-/131269505354/ http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-PowerBook-G4-A1010-Hard-Drive-Connector-Cable-632-0178-A-/161632541772]

As for the trackpad.  I was expressing astonishment that it sometimes worked with the ADB mouse.  It very infrequently works without but I get the impression there's a disconnect between port connectivity and the controller.  To wit, when I seat it very firmly, it freezes both the external mouse and trackpad.  When it worked intermittently I think it wasn't seated as well.  I've tried this with two trackpads and my 5300's trackpad [i don't know if it worked].  So I think it may be an issue with the port.

The CD drive I don't know.  I took it apart fully and found white gunk which I choose to believe was mayonnaise or moisturizer or something.  I cleaned it and reassembled and now it seems to work even less [but this may also be a power issue; I don't know].  There's a great tutorial out there on rebuilding the 1400's modules.  But it also says replacing the 3400 CD module is probably impossible.  So that may just be a bust because I doubt I'll find a cheap one.

PCMCIA to CF adapter's in the mail; the Cardbus one I have is only Windows-compatible.  The PCMCIA eject board also broke apart so I'll have to try and resolder it.  But that was one thought - that I could probably get away with using a Cardbus USB card [been in the mail for weeks...] and a PCMCIA>CF SSD (essentially) assuming that my or any USB wifi dongles will work with OS 9 [none work, it turns out].  That also assumes I figure out how to fix the trackpad.

(Oh, per the IDE issue.  Those two TI chips are bus transceivers.  My concern over them is little white particulates between the pins.  They likely control the IDE bus, so the cable might be a red herring.)

[sorry one last thought.  I used both power boards today also and the effects were a bit different.  The one I use less frequently couldn't even get to the flashing disk with the HD plugged in.  I don't know enough about HDs power usage, but let's just say it seemed clear that some of the symptoms I'm getting may be power-based; so still waiting on the soldering iron.]

 
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raoulduke

Well-known member
Do you have any idea how I'd find out where the ADB controller is.  The mouse works better but sometimes it doesn't work at all.  I'll let it sit overnight again but that's not a great solution if I intend to actually use the laptop.

 

raoulduke

Well-known member
Interesting. You had no corrosion damage. So I got mine to move from gray screen to flashing image by dishwashing the board. Personally I think the culprit is a CMOS chip on the underside. I posted a pic. As for the ADB controller, which I'm increasingly certain is the mouse problem, I don't know. I think they're two chips on the front of the board but I don't know what to do.

However, it's worth noting this:  I have three power boards of which two are currently usable.  The one I mostly use is the one that yields the symptoms above.  The other one usually boots only to the gray screen - no cursor - and no flashing disk.  However, that one that rarely works - when it does - seems to make the ADB devices work (badly) - whereas the one that mostly works doesn't seem to do anything with ADB.

In other words, there's a slight possibility some of these issues are related to your power board.  Both the power boards I have are no doubt slightly off in terms of voltage and/or current.  Hopefully I can recap my third power board today and I'll update on symptoms.

 
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raoulduke

Well-known member
Also I recapped my power board.  I find no indication it works better than the others.  I think there may be minor issues with the power boards but that mostly the power issues are located in the logic board.  I've mostly found the power boards respond to issues with the logic board.  The one I just recapped makes more noise than one of the others.  And though it works [maybe they all work] if the issue is in the boards, I don't think it's in the SMD caps.

 

raoulduke

Well-known member
So I'm pretty sure the ADB problem is related to one or maybe two tiny components on the underside of the board just behind the ADB port if moving from the edge of the board.  I think they're bidirectional capacitors because there's no polarity indication (on the board or a band on the component) and because they look like very small ceramic capacitors.

In any event this is on a semi-indefinite hiatus.  I noticed gunk on this little capacitor so I removed it and am having trouble putting it back on.  If that doesn't work I'll replace the slightly larger slightly less reddish-brown one immediately to its right [facing the edge of the board].  I'll update in a few months, probably.

If I hadn't created some likely shorts I would test it to see if it functions the same without the component.

 
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galgot

Well-known member
Btw, I have Kanga too,  witch is almost the same machine.

It has that sound problem. Runs and start Ok, but if I leave it plugged on the the power block for a while (like for a night), then wake it, then sound would go.

Or the speakers would do strange KrrrKrrr noises. Then if I reboot, chime is replaced by a loud KrrrrrrrKrrrrrKrrrr ... Have to leave it shutdown for couple of days to have sound correctly again.

Anyone knows this problem ?

About that ADB problem, could it come from the ADB mouse being unpluged while the Mac is running ? I know it's BAD to do that.

 
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raoulduke

Well-known member
The Kanga power boards are the same and the motherboards are mostly the same.  I'm not 100% sure why those noises but I think it's a capacitor issue.  As you've noted, when you leave it plugged in for a while it's more likely to do this.  When I recapped the one cylindrical cap on my motherboard and the two on the power board, it mostly stopped.  I mostly use a non-recapped power board so I forget if it totally stopped.  But I have noticed it sometimes recurs on the non-recapped power board only when the PRAM battery or the battery are plugged in.  So I think it's definitely an electrical issue, and probably with the capacitors on the motherboard - but it may be the result of electrical issues with the power board (and possibly its capacitors).  It's also possible there's something wrong with the speakers.  Or there may be multiple problems that yield similar symptoms.

No, I never plugged in or unplugged anything from this ADB port while the computer had power to it.  I used to do that all the time (15 years ago) and never had a problem.  Actually I did that a few months ago between my SE and PM 7100, before I was aware of the warning against that.  But short-term, in my experience, hot plugging/unplugging wouldn't yield this symptom.  In the long-term?  Maybe.  I don't know what happens to ADB over time with hot-plugging.  And I wasn't the original owner of this computer so it's possible - though it seems a little odd someone would be using the ADB port on a 1997- laptop a lot.  Who knows?

 

raoulduke

Well-known member
Brief follow-up.  I got a Kanga from Uniserver which is mostly great, but it also has speaker buzz issues.  Kanga and 3400c - despite having the same manual which lists cross-compatible hardware part numbers (APNs) - isn't actually the same.  I can't speak too much on that but I tried to replace the two side ... things - that cover the hinges and go up to the trackpad panel.  Those are different.  The heatsink is different.  I haven't poked around inside the Kanga much more yet.

As for the speaker buzz...  I don't know.  Someone in an article about a totally different model mentioned grounding issues...  I replaced the speaker/brightness panel to no effect.  The bottom side of the panel is actually different so I had to swap that out.  I have one more speaker panel to test.  I also just tried headphones for the first time and there's no buzz through the speaker port - suggesting it's an issue with the panel - either the speakers themselves or the connection or the board's circuitry specific to that panel.

** (Good illustration; I was about to swap out the Kanga's power board for one of the 3400c's...  but they have different listed part numbers (3400c: 820-0748-A; Kanga: 820-0949-A))

 
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raoulduke

Well-known member
[Recapping the power board (on the Kanga) did not affect the speaker buzz - neither did swapping out the speakers.  The ... I don't know what it is 'board' inside the speaker panel looked dirty but not damaged.  I guess I could clean one of my spares and swap it in eventually to see if that helps.]

 
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galgot

Well-known member
yeah the hinges have been reinforced by two metal pieces on the kanga, so the two plastic pieces that cover the hinges must cover a bigger volume compare to the 3400c. Must have been modified too. Good thing is that palmrest and trackpad are interchangeable, did it recently.

You mention a board inside the screen panel,behind the lcd on a metal frame if I remember right, isn't this the inverter ?

As for the noise, as I mentioned before, noticed it appeared after the PB being plugged to power for while. So I thought maybe it as to do with a bad battery charged... I placed some tape on the battery contacts so now it can't charge. Will see if there is any change.

 

raoulduke

Well-known member
The board inside the speaker panel, not the inverter. The battery shouldn't make a difference. If anything you should test the symptoms just on AC adapter and just on battery. Mine came with the battery contacts taped.

 

raoulduke

Well-known member
(Good info on the trackpad/palmrest being replaceable, by the way.  The keyboard, as far as I can tell, is also replaceable (swapped it out last night).  The keyboard that came with the Kanga had a bad caps lock light and faulty "=" and "[" keys.  The speaker panel is likely also replaceable with the earlier 3400c one [632-0072-00] - but I think the later 3400c one uses the same one as Kanga [632-0072-A].

[it's crazy that the manual makes no mention of any of this.  I guess I would infer either a) it was released after all 3400c's were switched to the parts that would be used in Kanga (so that nothing in stock with Apple at the time would have been for the older 3400c's without specific request, maybe) or B) the electronics components are actually all compatible.  The only thing it'd scare me to test that on is the power board, because the bus speeds are different.  I don't know if that matters.])

The plastic pieces, I'm not sure if they're actually a different size, but on the 3400c, there are like cross/plus plastic bits around the dowel that goes into the hinges; on the Kanga it's just the dowel, so the 3400c's plus/cross thing won't fit.  I thought about cutting them off (since I have two sets) but then you're right they may not actually be the right size.

 
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raoulduke

Well-known member
Probably unlikely... anyone have a 3400c logic board out that they'd be willing to take a picture of?  Specifically the underside right below the power adapter port and next to the ADB port.

 
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