NuBus CPU upgrade in Duo dock?

[sambapati87]

Can I put a NuBus processor upgrade in my Dock II for use with my 2300c?

Is that even possible?

 

[beachycove]

Maybe a sound or video card (in which case compatibility with version of MacOS and ppc becomes an issue), but nothing else.

 

[sambapati87]

Actually I did some more reading and found that there arent any CPU upgrades that go straight into the Nubus slot (correct me if I'm wrong) but into the Cache/PDS slot of Nubus powermacs.

I am also under the impression that any NuBus card works fine in a dock. In fact I have an ethernet card and a radius video card in mine now.

 

[beachycove]

Some nubus cards will not work with recent system software, and some (say, the Rocket accelerators) will not work with a ppc processor. That's all I meant.

I have a 2300c with CF, and a dock with Radius Thunder video and ethernet cards. Similar setup. I also re-celled the battery. I really like the machine and whole setup, but I think my favourite is the 270c. It's just a shame that it's so hard (or else expensive) to get a replacement for the old drive.

 

[Bunsen]

Can I put a NuBus processor upgrade in my Dock II for use with my 2300c? / into the Cache/PDS slot

Not without some serious dock connector/PDS hacking - even then, maybe not. For starters, it's highly doubtful you can even make, let alone find, anything resembling the PPC PDS inside the Dock or on the docking connector - more likely something like an '030 or LC PDS held over from the 68k Duo designs.

ISTR that the Nubus riser board appears to the system as a PDS; the FPU socket might be another point of interest. Is there even a cache socket in any of the Docks? Either way, this sounds like a major engineering project.

Paging Trash80toG4 ... where is that guy?? A Duo that becomes a G3 when docked would be right up his alley, let alone mine. }

some (say, the Rocket accelerators) will not work with a ppc processor.

Not so - Rockets with the right software version will work quite happily in x100 Nubus PPCs - and thus, by implication, in a 2300/Dock. A 40MHz Stage II should indeed give the 100MHz PPC a fair run for its money with 68k code.

 

[LCGuy]

Paging Trash80toG4 ... where is that guy?? A Duo that becomes a G3 when docked would be right up his alley, let alone mine. }

Wasn't he working on a G3 upgrade for the 2300?

jt, where are you???

 

[sambapati87]

beachycove, I'm thinking of recelling the battery in mine too. I've got 48mb of RAM and a 1GB CF, and the machine works perfectly. Such a shame that I can't take it with with me without a working battery. I already took one apart, drew a schematic of how it went back together, and kept all the little parts inside, just haven't got myself the cells yet....

Also - I have a spare 2.5" SCSI drive (actually pulled from a 270c) that I'd be willing to sell you if you need one. PM me.

 

[beachycove]

I tried re-celling mine with AA-sized, tabbed NiMh cells but could not make them fit. The OEM cells were smaller (2/3 AA, I believe you call them), and after a struggle, I located some of those, and had a MUCH easier job of it.

I get about 2 hrs-2 hrs & 20 mins. from a charge. The same cells in a 270c will give a charge of about 3 hrs., and with no backlighting, 4+ hours.

Well worth doing and not especially difficult, apart from finding the cells.

 

[Bunsen]

Paging Trash80toG4 ... where is that guy??

Wasn't he working on a G3 upgrade for the 2300?

Well, he was researching it at least, reading lots of devnotes, and seemed to think it was feasible - taking parts from a 1400 and/or 5300 and mounting a Crescendo PB1400 G3 upgrade IIRC. Mind you, it was definitely a major bit of engineering.

My alternative idea was trying to pin-map the docking bar to a PDS of some sort and mounting it inside a MiniDock.

sambapati87: the message is, if you're willing to do a -lot- of research, and possibly do some very fiddly soldering and/or have custom multi-layer boards made, it -might- be feasible. Ish.

Paging trag?

All of Trash80toG4's threads on the subject were lost in the Great Crash. I just hope that one day he googlestalks himself and winds up back here, with all of his notes intact.

Trash80toG4

Trash80toG4

Trash80toG4

Trash80toG4

Trash80toG4

Trash80toG4

Trash80toG4

Trash80toG4

[] ]'>

 

[sambapati87]

I tried re-celling mine with AA-sized, tabbed NiMh cells but could not make them fit. The OEM cells were smaller (2/3 AA, I believe you call them), and after a struggle, I located some of those, and had a MUCH easier job of it.
I get about 2 hrs-2 hrs & 20 mins. from a charge. The same cells in a 270c will give a charge of about 3 hrs., and with no backlighting, 4+ hours.

Well worth doing and not especially difficult, apart from finding the cells.

I think the closest is 4/5 A, so I'll try those first.

 

[beachycove]

You are right, it isn't 2/3. I think it is 4/5AA, which you can get fairly readily. Check the measurement of the cells listed here against the originals when you open up the battery case.

 

[LCGuy]

All of Trash80toG4's threads on the subject were lost in the Great Crash. I just hope that one day he googlestalks himself and winds up back here, with all of his notes intact.
Trash80toG4

Trash80toG4

Trash80toG4

Trash80toG4

Trash80toG4

Trash80toG4

Trash80toG4

Trash80toG4

[] ]'>

As do I...he really was a valuable member of the vintage Mac community.

Anyway, just, for once more...

Trash80toG-4

Trash80toG4 (i think he used both variations)

Edit - I just googled both variations of his name...this thread comes up as the first match for both.

 

[Bunsen]

I just googled both variations of his name...this thread comes up as the first match for both.

Nice work

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

I'm back, but until I re-learn how to embed a URL or get around to copy/pasting my '''fritter return to the web announcement in the lounge, you folks are SOL on the full story.

http://www.applefritter.com/node/24063 turns out the url wasn't overly long anyway!

Be that as it may, the DuoDock riser is a "simple" NuBus riser card, the slot on the "MoBo" is NuBus NOT a PDS as the NuBus controllers are on the Dock's "MoBo." What makes it different than a straight through pinout extension like a PC AT riser and MAYBE the PCI risers on the 5XXX & 6XXX PowerMacs is that the glue circuitry providing for the two NuBus Slot Addresses are on the riser as opposed to the IIsi riser which contains the NuBus IC' as well as the slot address glue logic, likely for a single slot ONLY, IIRC, it's been a while gang! :

BTW, the Declaration ROM is specific to each dock, enabling whatever features any given dock has the circuitry to adapt from the '030 PDS. Luckily the NuBus bridge set does not rely upon any additional code on the DeclROM. The rest of the features that remain available are strickley passthru signals implemented on extra lines on the Docking Connector, IIRC.

DeclRoms for Docks I & II are a different package IIRC, and should not be interchangable AFAIK, the different features enabled MIGHT let you turn a Dock II into a less capable Dock I, but I tend to doubt it. DeclRoms from smaller docks probably won't help as swapouts for any other Docks as they only implement the features of their dedicated Docks, Mini or Micro.

glad to be back home again,

jt ;D

 

[alk]

Yay! He's back! Glad to hear from you, Trash!

Peace,

Drew

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

Yay! He's back! Glad to hear from you, Trash!
Peace,

Drew

Thanks for the welcome comrade! In just a few minutes my friend is helping me pick up 9' of 6" bookshelves so all my ancient Mac Manuals will soon be out of the file folder boxes & ready to hand.

Can't wait to have 'em handy again!

jt

 

[redrouteone]

I'm back, but until I re-learn how to embed a URL or get around to copy/pasting my '''fritter return to the web announcement in the lounge, you folks are SOL on the full story....

glad to be back home again,

jt ;D

Wow long time no see. It is great to see you around again.

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

Paging Trash80toG4 ... where is that guy??

My alternative idea was trying to pin-map the docking bar to a PDS of some sort and mounting it inside a MiniDock.

I was actually in the loony bin when I checked out the forums and found out you guys missed me. :I

That helped a lot, comrades, thanks!

As for your alternative, it's not practicable because the '030 PDS is on the slow side of the PBX (?) Bridge IC. What any sane person might try would be to hack in at the RAM expansion card level which is on the fast side of the '030 Bridge bottleneck.

One might also try to implementing a larger, more modern memory subsystem on the RAM Card/adapter . . . maybe even see if the author of RAMDisk+ was still around to implement his little gem for the hack or to provide the source code for said utility. This would allow for an additional speed gain for the Duo aside from the processor upgrade . . .

. . . and might be a worthwhile and much more easily accomplished acceleration method that should fit inside the Duo, given the extra real estate available in the modem bay . . .

. . . but you'd need to be just a little bit mad to attempt such a thing I guess. :-x

BTW, I was playing with a Duo/MiniDock combo and the HP 23" 1080p Monitor and noticed that if you boot the Duo with the lid closed, the LCD remains blank and the active screen pops up on the external monitor . . . kinda like the DuoDock's behavior . . . which might lend a little more credibility to the notion of grafting a stock MiniDock DeclROM into the DuoDock to regain the services of the balance of the DuoDock's subsystems lost by disabling its DeclROM. This MIGHT allow for lidless 'Dock LCD operational bliss, regaining lidless/DeclROMless operability of the LCD concurrently alongside an external display without utilizing a precious NuBus slot!

. . . but one needs must be more than a little bit loony to give that Hack a shot . . .

JT :-x

 

[Bunsen]

... or at least have a spare or borked MiniDock you don't mind hackrificing.

Say, jt, if you can find one for sale somewhere and you want to give this project a kick along, I'll throw in $5. Anyone else?