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New LC owner questions: display, PSU

Phipli

Well-known member
EXTREMELY OFF TOPIC!!

I don't mean to sound snobby or rude but don't you think that cost plays a large role here? A Zulu SCSI is closet to $70 here it the states while a BlueSCSI v2 is closer to $60 w/ WiFi (more feature rich to me as well). Just last night I used my V2 to transfer data from an old working SCSI drive to the V2's SD card for archiving w/o the need for a computer of any kind.

I am sure Toyota sees more service related issues than say Mitsubishi, one gets sold way more than the other so those more frequent issues are expected.

I too had issues starting out with my BlueSCSI V2 but they were all just learning/growing pains. A lot of people prefer to come to these forums, myself included, for help vs reading a help document that use words and terminology I might not even know the definition to. I cant speak for the V1 as it was before my time but I have a V2 internal and a DB25 version, both of which work without a hitch when used properly. I have IIci, a SE FDHD, A 630CD and a 6205CD all working with a V2.

I do understand that developers need to be open to valid criticism and should be open to change if the criticism is based on fact. This we can totally agree on.

Again, to date, my V2's have not had any issues so when I see people complaining about the support or lack there of, not to mention that it has a lot of issues that are solved on this forum vs official channels I feel that yes, we are all in this hobby together and us newcomers should be welcomed with open arms vs pushed of to another forum or Discord server that will be lost to the sands of time and not be useful for future reference; definitely not ignored. It is one of the things I love most about this forum, I can reference old posts to try and solve my issues before opening a new thread.

I will end by saying I LOVE ALL OF YOU and will continue to support as many people as I possible can with the information I have learned, albeit in a short span. I still enjoy this hobby and will not stop supporting/trying to make it grow no matter what was purchased or from whom. Sometimes that was information not known to begin with and should not be the basis for help or lack there of.

Macs Forever!
Your reply is about a different product. :)
 

danny.gonzalez.0861@gmai

Well-known member
Your reply is about a different product. :)
Hello Phipli,

My reply was mostly in reference to your comment:

"More frustratingly, at the time, and still to some degree, this forum ends up providing a large amount of support to BlueSCSIs that they themselves have sold. Search for "blueSCSI not working" or "BlueSCSI help" or whatever and count the results. Even now there are about three or more threads every week providing support for their devices, which is tedious and frustrating, especially as it isn't easy to troubleshoot and wastes our time."

I don't think that helping any member, no matter if its a BlueSCSI a ZuluSCSI a GreenSCSI or a YellowSCSI (LMAO Dr Seuss style) should be thought of as a waste of time. My main point is that we are all in this together and most of us, myself included, are learning new things daily from great minds like yourself. My wife says collecting these computers are a waste of time too, but well, here we are.

You once graciously helped my with a SuperMac Nubus Video card, that after much reading into, I found out was not of the best quality (made in China) vs its competitors. Does that mean I should not have gotten your amazing support vs a person with say a radius card? I don't think so but that is just my opinion. I think we all deserve help when coming to public forums, its part of the experience.

Again Phipli, I "Phlippling" (flipping; see what I did there!) love you buddy just didn't like the waste of time comment. I don't think anyone should be considered a waste of time, well to some degree lol...

Cheesestraws,

I will second what Bnys said a few posts back:

"I'm sorry this was a sensitive subject but I had no idea there were any difficulties with this project or its creators. I hope you're able to heal from any abuse you had to put up with. Genuinely, thank you for your input."

Members like you keep this place alive! I hate hearing when you guys get put down especially since it is you guys that we come to for support and suggestions.

Thanks guys for the continued support as always!
 

Phipli

Well-known member
I don't think that helping any member, no matter if its a BlueSCSI a ZuluSCSI a GreenSCSI or a YellowSCSI (LMAO Dr Seuss style) should be thought of as a waste of time.
As do I. Which is why I spend an absolutely huge amount of time assisting people on this forum. :)

On the other hand, I think that if you are profiting by selling a product, you have a responsibility to provide support.

I also think that before asking for help, you should read the instructions, regardless of...
prefer to come to these forums
it being easier.
I can reference old posts to try and solve my issues before opening a new thread.
... but many people don't.
You once graciously helped my with a SuperMac Nubus Video card, that after much reading into, I found out was not of the best quality (made in China) vs its competitors. Does that mean I should not have gotten your amazing support vs a person with say a radius card? I don't think so but that is just my opinion. I think we all deserve help when coming to public forums, its part of the experience.
These are retro products, not stuff made by someone who is still selling them and has manuals and a support email address / discord / ticket system.

Repeatedly being asked the same question every week grinds you down. This is a fact, I'm not saying this because I'm being bitter about people starting out. Its nice to imagine a forum as a wonderful place to come for technical support, but it is important to search for old threads first, because... well, eventually people stop replying. People just get worn out. Especially on topics that are well documented.

You're talking like I don't actually still try to help people, I do, but it is impossible not to be frustrated answering the same question again and again. The way you talk about the forum makes it sound like a paid for service with its intention being to provide support. Its more like a club for people with a similar interest, and if I was spending every meetup of a club doing hard graft for other people... sooner or later I'd stop going. Truth be told - I've come close here and would have previously walked away if it wasn't for my good friends and the fun, jolly interactions with strangers.
 
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danny.gonzalez.0861@gmai

Well-known member
You're talking like I don't actually still try to help people, I do, but it is impossible not to be frustrated answering the same question again and again. They way you talk about the forum makes it sound like a paid for service with its intention being to provide support. Its more like a club for people with a similar interest, and if I was spending every meetup of a club doing hard graft for other people... sooner or later I'd stop going. Truth be told - I've come close here and would have previously walked away if it wasn't for my good friends and the fun, jolly interactions with strangers.
I meant absolutely zero disrespect and I am sorry if I came off as such. You are a great person and I have never thought differently of you. I definitely never said you don't actively help people and I am sorry if I came off as thinking so, that was never my intention nor is than even remotely true about you. Your service on this forum speaks for itself and I mean that in the most spectacular way.

Sincerely, I will leave this hear as to not cause any more trouble than I may have caused.

My sincere apologies Phipli!
 

bnys

Member
Update for anyone who cares: I gave the logic board a thorough cleaning, and replaced the PSU with the suggested Mean Well model. I wasn't sure if it would do anything at this stage, but I got fan spin and a chime!

Next up is getting some help with a recap, ordering upgrades (probably from SiliconInsider; 512 meg VRAM and 8 meg RAM, SCSI replacement) and figuring out how to cheaply get a small LCD for the machine. Any suggestions for the best OS version to install? Does low-latency matter when it comes to VRAM?
 

Phipli

Well-known member
Does low-latency matter when it comes to VRAM?
All apple VRAM is fast enough for the LC II, so you should be fine with anything. The speed is dictated by the computer, so there is no benefit putting faster stuff in. I think 100ns or faster is fine for these?

Any suggestions for the best OS version to install?
I'd probably set it up to dual boot 7.1 and 7.5.3 :) if I was going for only one, I'd likely go with 7.1 for the smaller memory footprint. There are benefits to both.

Update for anyone who cares: I gave the logic board a thorough cleaning, and replaced the PSU with the suggested Mean Well model. I wasn't sure if it would do anything at this stage, but I got fan spin and a chime!
Excellent news :) congratulations!
 

bnys

Member
Hey another update: I was able to locally get a small VGA LCD and a couple of adapters (one is the unimac 82d-style), so why not fire it up again and see what happens? Unfortunately, I have lines on the screen no matter what dip switch settings I use, and in monochrome or color modes. I’ve heard this can be bad VRAM but maybe the recap will solve this as well? I have a 512k VRAM SIMM coming at some point. Cleaning and reseating the VRAM did not help things at all. IMG_1959.jpeg
 

bnys

Member
I think breaks in CLUT data lines can cause this.
Seems like those are very close to the caps on the RAM side of the board so that makes sense. I don’t see anything that’s obvious but the recap may reveal broken traces. Thanks for the tip!
 

joevt

Well-known member
Every 16th pixel is affected. Seems like one of the data lines is broken? There's 40 affected bits across the width of the screen which means you're running at 640 pixels width. It appears to be the third bit (counting from the right most bit). Bits 0-1,3-15 are ok but bit 2 is bad.

But you said you see the same thing in color mode? If it's the same spacing it's probably not the VRAM data lines.
 

bnys

Member
Every 16th pixel is affected. Seems like one of the data lines is broken? There's 40 affected bits across the width of the screen which means you're running at 640 pixels width. It appears to be the third bit (counting from the right most bit). Bits 0-1,3-15 are ok but bit 2 is bad.

But you said you see the same thing in color mode? If it's the same spacing it's probably not the VRAM data lines.
Would this indicate a VRAM issue after all? In Color mode the bars can vary a bit more (and somewhat disappear depending on what’s on screen), but I chalked that up to the way the system is dithering to make the different colors.
 

bnys

Member
Here are a couple more screenshots. As mentioned the bars occasionally disappear and shimmer a little bit depending on content. The bars on color mode are almost always green, and about half the distance apart of in monochrome mode.
 

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luRaichu

Well-known member
The LC should be able to do 256 colors by the way. check your DIP switches again. set for a VGA monitor, if you haven't already.
 

treellama

Well-known member
The LC should be able to do 256 colors by the way. check your DIP switches again. set for a VGA monitor, if you haven't already.
LC needs a VRAM upgrade to do 256 on a 640x480. Sadly, the upgrade makes its slow video even slower :(
 

joevt

Well-known member
Would this indicate a VRAM issue after all? In Color mode the bars can vary a bit more (and somewhat disappear depending on what’s on screen), but I chalked that up to the way the system is dithering to make the different colors.
Definitely looks like a VRAM problem since the spacing between bars depends on the color depth.
In 1 bit color mode (Black & White), the bars occur every 16 pixels (16 bits).
In 4 bit color mode (16 colors), the bars occur every 4 pixels (16 bits).
In 2 bit color mode (4 colors), I would expect the bars to occur every 8 pixels (16 bits).
In 8 bit color mode (256 colors), I would expect the bars to occur every 2 pixels (16 bits).

Does the LC have a 16 bit data bus? You need to fix the 3rd data bit.
 
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