New LC owner questions: display, PSU

[bnys]

Hi there,
I recently got my Mac SE in good working order and I was generously gifted an LC II at a vintage computer show yesterday. Looks like I accidentally found a new project!

The logic board is not battery bombed thankfully, but the caps are showing signs of leaking and will need to be replaced. The cluster by the audio circuitry was somewhat greasy and with some minor corrosion on the ics in that area. Some wiped off with isopropyl so I think it's probably salvagable. I've seen worse condition LCs on YouTube videos for sure. However, it does not currently boot at all.

I have two places where I need some help, however: I recently put a DekuNukem Pico PSU adapter into my Mac SE and I love that it's so quiet and cool-running now. There's a similar adapter out there for the LC but it requires cutting off the PSU pigtail from the LC's TDK unit and doesn't have a nice mounting solution for the DC-in jack. Any thoughts about recap vs replace for this model?

Secondly, it turns out that I do not have a monitor or TV with a VGA-in. My secondary TV in my workspace I've used for some computer stuff has Component-in (YPbPr) but all my other screens are digital at this stage. Is there a good simple adapter I can use? Or is it worth throwing $60 at eBay for a square Dell screen with VGA-in? I'd prefer (and so would my parter) not to have yet another screen if possible. Thank you for the help!!

 

[Nixontheknight]

Hi there,
I recently got my Mac SE in good working order and I was generously gifted an LC II at a vintage computer show yesterday. Looks like I accidentally found a new project!

The logic board is not battery bombed thankfully, but the caps are showing signs of leaking and will need to be replaced. The cluster by the audio circuitry was somewhat greasy and with some minor corrosion on the ics in that area. Some wiped off with isopropyl so I think it's probably salvagable. I've seen worse condition LCs on YouTube videos for sure. However, it does not currently boot at all.

I have two places where I need some help, however: I recently put a DekuNukem Pico PSU adapter into my Mac SE and I love that it's so quiet and cool-running now. There's a similar adapter out there for the LC but it requires cutting off the PSU pigtail from the LC's TDK unit and doesn't have a nice mounting solution for the DC-in jack. Any thoughts about recap vs replace for this model?

Secondly, it turns out that I do not have a monitor or TV with a VGA-in. My secondary TV in my workspace I've used for some computer stuff has Component-in (YPbPr) but all my other screens are digital at this stage. Is there a good simple adapter I can use? Or is it worth throwing $60 at eBay for a square Dell screen with VGA-in? I'd prefer (and so would my parter) not to have yet another screen if possible. Thank you for the help!!

there are VGA to HDMI adapters on Amazon, and recapping the power supply is doable, make sure to discharge all the capacitors before attempting to recap the power supply, you don't want to get zapped by charged AC capacitors while you're soldering (which can be between 170V and 340V depending on where you live), because those can hurt

 

[Nixontheknight]

and one more tip, frequent your local thrift stores, there are bound to be tons of displays capable of VGA that people are donating there, that's how I got the LCD monitor for mine

 

[Phipli]

Any thoughts about recap vs replace for this model?

I recapped two of these and they failed again about 2 months later. Much better to replace.

 

[Phipli]

Secondly, it turns out that I do not have a monitor or TV with a VGA-in. My secondary TV in my workspace I've used for some computer stuff has Component-in (YPbPr) but all my other screens are digital at this stage. Is there a good simple adapter I can use? Or is it worth throwing $60 at eBay for a square Dell screen with VGA-in? I'd prefer (and so would my parter) not to have yet another screen if possible. Thank you for the help!!

I'd just buy an old LCD with VGA. You should be able to get one much cheaper than $60, if not free. Ask around your friends and family. Post on your Facebook wall if you use it "anyone got a 20 year old small LCD they don't want?" Post in local groups perhaps if you struggle.

Or ask the IT department at work are they throwing out any old monitors.

This said, you will find that the LC II doesn't have a VGA port, you'll need to save your money for an adapter. Bigmessowires makes some very comprehensive ones, otherwise, go for one with ten switches to be on the safe side.

 

[Nixontheknight]

I recapped two of these and they failed again about 2 months later. Much better to replace.

then you might not be using quality capacitors, rubicon is a pretty good brand

 

[Phipli]

then you might not be using quality capacitors, rubicon is a pretty good brand

Oh, thank you for your advice.

 

[9646gt]

I prefer more than anything the M1212 apple monitor you can find on eBay from time to time. It's 640*480 and the entire design of it is centered around the pizza box style case. Really makes the setup.

As for PSU I recapped mine and it wasn't very hard at all and it's been going strong. Console5 has the kits to do it. You won't really notice any PSU noise. But the fan in the bottoms of the actual computer case that cools the entire system is quite loud. I'd like to source something quieter but just haven't gotten around to it.

 

[bnys]

there are VGA to HDMI adapters on Amazon, and recapping the power supply is doable, make sure to discharge all the capacitors before attempting to recap the power supply, you don't want to get zapped by charged AC capacitors while you're soldering (which can be between 170V and 340V depending on where you live), because those can hurt

Is there any recommended VGA to HDMI option on Amazon? I don't trust anything on there...too much junk and bot reviews. I think if I don't mess with the PSU and just replace it with a power brick and picoPSU that might be a little safer

I prefer more than anything the M1212 apple monitor you can find on eBay from time to time. It's 640*480 and the entire design of it is centered around the pizza box style case. Really makes the setup.

As for PSU I recapped mine and it wasn't very hard at all and it's been going strong. Console5 has the kits to do it. You won't really notice any PSU noise. But the fan in the bottoms of the actual computer case that cools the entire system is quite loud. I'd like to source something quieter but just haven't gotten around to it.

I like the way a classic CRT monitor looks but it's another headache to have to deal with later on down the road (more stuff to break, wear out, recap etc etc) and I live in a small apartment so a boxy monitor isn't the best thing to add to my collection.

I'd just buy an old LCD with VGA. You should be able to get one much cheaper than $60, if not free. Ask around your friends and family. Post on your Facebook wall if you use it "anyone got a 20 year old small LCD they don't want?" Post in local groups perhaps if you struggle.

Or ask the IT department at work are they throwing out any old monitors.

This said, you will find that the LC II doesn't have a VGA port, you'll need to save your money for an adapter. Bigmessowires makes some very comprehensive ones, otherwise, go for one with ten switches to be on the safe side.

Noted about the Mac VGA adapter. Is there a source for a reliable one? I used to work in educational IT and they were a dime a dozen 20 years ago but I didn't keep any from that time of my life.

Thanks everyone for your thoughts! Here's hoping I can get it running again soon.

 

[cheesestraws]

but it requires cutting off the PSU pigtail from the LC's TDK unit

Do you mean the PSU -> logic board cable? You can use a Molex KK396 (or compatible; I get mine from eBay, so "compatible" is perhaps a charitable word). If you don't have a suitable crimper, a lot of places will sell you pre-terminated cables for this kind of thing - but whether that's economically feasible is perhaps a different question.

Any thoughts about recap vs replace for this model?

@Phipli is right here, though with a nuance: if you care a lot about historical accuracy, you can try to keep the old one alive, but it will definitely get to a point that it's more trouble than it's worth. There's a strong superstition around old Mac enthusiasts that everything can be fixed with recapping, and if you recap it and it still doesn't work it's because you haven't recapped it hard enough dammit, but of course that's profoundly untrue, and there are loads of things that can go wrong that aren't capacitors. Those PSUs when they fail, if you recap them, some of them spring back to life; some don't, and some come back to life only to blow something else up shortly afterwards.

Also working in power supplies is not for the faint of heart. It scares me how apparently careless many people are. There are a lot of ways to damage yourself in one of those.

So, if it's working at the moment and you are comfortable in your ability to not fry yourself, you could try a recap: but unless you want a museum piece, replacement is the way to get a reliable computer.

Is there any recommended VGA to HDMI option on Amazon? I don't trust anything on there...too much junk and bot reviews. I think if I don't mess with the PSU and just replace it with a power brick and picoPSU that might be a little safer

Buying a normal PC VGA to HDMI scaler off amazon is a bad idea, if nothing else because it'll only work with one or two of the resolutions that the Mac will put out. Most of them are rubbish. If you have patience, I'd recommend getting an Extron RGB-HDMI 300(A) off eBay - they're bloody good but have unfortunately risen in price recently as people have realised they're bloody good. Keep looking, though, and one will probably arise for relatively cheap. This is the most flexible and most space-efficient way of going about it - but not the cheapest, which would be to just scavenge around until you find someone who will let you take an old screen away for free, as @Phipli says.

Don't buy a CRT unless you actually want a CRT, specifically. They're painful, big, and hard on the eyes. Display technology has got pretty much unequivocably better, and unless one is going for a full-on nostalgia trip, one might as well avail oneself of this.

Is there a source for a reliable one?

You're probably either stuck with eBay or building one yourself - there are adapters on github if you want to have a go at building one.. If ebay, get one with 10 DIP switches if possible - they will let you emulate every monitor known to humankind, or at least to old macs.

 

[bnys]

Thanks all for the feedback!! It's greatly appreciated. Here's my gameplan so far:
Recap logic board. I know someone who has better equipment than I can justify owning, so he'll do a great job with the hot air station. He has some other LCs and hopefully we can test the board to verify it's been fixed and can boot again.

After it's confirmed to work, it's time to do upgrades:

Either replace the PSU with the universal DekoNukem adapter or the Rabbit Hole Computing mAcTX adapter specifically for the LC models. I'm leaning towards Deko's version since it has fuses. Pico PSU goes inside, power brick outside most likely, unless I can figure out how to make use of the space the stock PSU takes up in a way that limits how often I need to open the case.

Replace the PRAM battery with one of the Siliconinsider button cell adapters.

RAM and VRAM upgrades, maybe also from Siliconinsider. If I get 2x 4 MB RAM DIMMs, I assume the LC II can't see the last 2 MB of RAM? Is 4 (onboard) + 4 + 4 the best way to get to 10? I've had it beaten into my thick skull that matching RAM sticks are best

Internal BlueSCSI

VGA adapter and small LCD monitor from the local secondhand computer shop, RePC. I have spare ADB keyboards and mice, just might need some cleaning.

...any other upgrades I should consider? Maybe a fan swap? I prefer it run quietly and as cool as possible.

 

[Phipli]

Thanks all for the feedback!! It's greatly appreciated. Here's my gameplan so far:
Recap logic board. I know someone who has better equipment than I can justify owning, so he'll do a great job with the hot air station. He has some other LCs and hopefully we can test the board to verify it's been fixed and can boot again.

After it's confirmed to work, it's time to do upgrades:

Either replace the PSU with the universal DekoNukem adapter or the Rabbit Hole Computing mAcTX adapter specifically for the LC models. I'm leaning towards Deko's version since it has fuses. Pico PSU goes inside, power brick outside most likely, unless I can figure out how to make use of the space the stock PSU takes up in a way that limits how often I need to open the case.

Replace the PRAM battery with one of the Siliconinsider button cell adapters.

RAM and VRAM upgrades, maybe also from Siliconinsider. If I get 2x 4 MB RAM DIMMs, I assume the LC II can't see the last 2 MB of RAM? Is 4 (onboard) + 4 + 4 the best way to get to 10? I've had it beaten into my thick skull that matching RAM sticks are best

Internal BlueSCSI

VGA adapter and small LCD monitor from the local secondhand computer shop, RePC. I have spare ADB keyboards and mice, just might need some cleaning.

...any other upgrades I should consider? Maybe a fan swap? I prefer it run quietly and as cool as possible.

I've put one of these in the original case before. They cost about £30 and you have to sort out how you plan to mount it, but they're excellent PSUs. Photos of the one I did are about halfway through the thread.

Replacement Power Supply in Quadra 605

the power supply in my souped up Quadra 605 died, and i am too lazy to recap it. (Q605 is recapped with tantalum, HD replaced with SD card, pretty new VRAM, 128MB RAM, and a full 68040) Following knowledge from a thread on TinkerDifferent I searched out a MeanWell RPT-60A, a small power supply...

68kmla.org

 

[cheesestraws]

I'd tend to recommend MacSD or ZuluSCSI over BlueSCSI; the former two have the great benefit that they're designed by people who know what they're doing, rather than by vacuous salesmen.

I've put one of these in the original case before. They cost about £30 and you have to sort out how you plan to mount it, but they're excellent PSUs. Photos of the one I did are about halfway through the thread.

I did this as well - it's a decent option - more work than an ATX adapter if you want to mount it properly, but looks better in the end. Your choice.

 

[Phipli]

I'd tend to recommend MacSD or ZuluSCSI over BlueSCSI; the former two have the great benefit that they're designed by people who know what they're doing, rather than by vacuous salesmen.

My favourite solution is to time travel back to 1997 and steal external SCSI hard disks from the desks of video editors and recording studios, but I'm having trouble finding the right fuel for my time machine these days, it doesn't like the ethonol in modern petrol.

 

[bnys]

I'd tend to recommend MacSD or ZuluSCSI over BlueSCSI; the former two have the great benefit that they're designed by people who know what they're doing, rather than by vacuous salesmen.

What does that last part mean? It's cheap open hardware—nobody is making much money off of the project. Personally, I will always pick the option that has the best community support and transparency over something closed off. But it's a niche hobby and I think everyone contributing deserves respect.

I'm definitely leaning towards the meanwell PSU now since it can fit the existing case. Thanks for the recommendations! I'll see how I can best source one for this machine!

 

[cheesestraws]

What does that last part mean?

it means I got tired of being abused by them for posting links to datasheets, but ok.

you do what you want to do - I will withdraw from this thread.

 

[Phipli]

What does that last part mean? It's cheap open hardware—nobody is making much money off of the project. Personally, I will always pick the option that has the best community support and transparency over something closed off. But it's a niche hobby and I think everyone contributing deserves respect.

If you're talking about the BlueSCSI V1, be aware that they exceed the electrical ratings of the chip they use, and tend to fail after being in use for a while.

The issues with the designer relate to that when this, and other issues, were raised with the designer, they came out guns blazing and refused to discuss improvements. More frustratingly, at the time, and still to some degree, this forum ends up providing a large amount of support to BlueSCSIs that they themselves have sold. Search for "blueSCSI not working" or "BlueSCSI help" or whatever and count the results. Even now there are about three or more threads every week providing support for their devices, which is tedious and frustrating, especially as it isn't easy to troubleshoot and wastes our time.

 

[bnys]

If you're talking about the BlueSCSI V1, be aware that they exceed the electrical ratings of the chip they use, and tend to fail after being in use for a while.

The issues with the designer relate to that when this, and other issues, were raised with the designer, they came out guns blazing and refused to discuss improvements. More frustratingly, at the time, and still to some degree, this forum ends up providing a large amount of support to BlueSCSIs that they themselves have sold. Search for "blueSCSI not working" or "BlueSCSI help" or whatever and count the results. Even now there are about three or more threads every week providing support for their devices, which is tedious and frustrating, especially as it isn't easy to troubleshoot and wastes our time.

Thanks for the context and I get that working with stubborn creators can be frustrating (that's my day job!) but at the end of the day I'm just a moocher. Who am I to criticize anyone for their hard work and passion, even if it's work I don't like.

I'll be sure to get the V2 for this machine. Had no idea there might be issues with the V1 so thanks for the heads-up.

it means I got tired of being abused by them for posting links to datasheets, but ok.

you do what you want to do - I will withdraw from this thread.

I'm sorry this was a sensitive subject but I had no idea there were any difficulties with this project or its creators. I hope you're able to heal from any abuse you had to put up with. Genuinely, thank you for your input.

 

[danny.gonzalez.0861@gmai]

If you're talking about the BlueSCSI V1, be aware that they exceed the electrical ratings of the chip they use, and tend to fail after being in use for a while.

The issues with the designer relate to that when this, and other issues, were raised with the designer, they came out guns blazing and refused to discuss improvements. More frustratingly, at the time, and still to some degree, this forum ends up providing a large amount of support to BlueSCSIs that they themselves have sold. Search for "blueSCSI not working" or "BlueSCSI help" or whatever and count the results. Even now there are about three or more threads every week providing support for their devices, which is tedious and frustrating, especially as it isn't easy to troubleshoot and wastes our time.

EXTREMELY OFF TOPIC!!

I don't mean to sound snobby or rude but don't you think that cost plays a large role here? A Zulu SCSI is closet to $70 here it the states while a BlueSCSI v2 is closer to $60 w/ WiFi (more feature rich to me as well). Just last night I used my V2 to transfer data from an old working SCSI drive to the V2's SD card for archiving w/o the need for a computer of any kind.

I am sure Toyota sees more service related issues than say Mitsubishi, one gets sold way more than the other so those more frequent issues are expected.

I too had issues starting out with my BlueSCSI V2 but they were all just learning/growing pains. A lot of people prefer to come to these forums, myself included, for help vs reading a help document that use words and terminology I might not even know the definition to. I cant speak for the V1 as it was before my time but I have a V2 internal and a DB25 version, both of which work without a hitch when used properly. I have IIci, a SE FDHD, A 630CD and a 6205CD all working with a V2.

I do understand that developers need to be open to valid criticism and should be open to change if the criticism is based on fact. This we can totally agree on.

Again, to date, my V2's have not had any issues so when I see people complaining about the support or lack there of, not to mention that it has a lot of issues that are solved on this forum vs official channels I feel that yes, we are all in this hobby together and us newcomers should be welcomed with open arms vs pushed of to another forum or Discord server that will be lost to the sands of time and not be useful for future reference; definitely not ignored. It is one of the things I love most about this forum, I can reference old posts to try and solve my issues before opening a new thread.

I will end by saying I LOVE ALL OF YOU and will continue to support as many people as I possible can with the information I have learned, albeit in a short span. I still enjoy this hobby and will not stop supporting/trying to make it grow no matter what was purchased or from whom. Sometimes that was information not known to begin with and should not be the basis for help or lack there of.

Macs Forever!

 

[cheesestraws]

[deleted: play stupid games, win stupid prizes]