My SE/30: w/ Turbo 040, ROM-inator, Ethernet and 8.1

[JDW]

Currently the last two of your bullet points are mutually exclusive (ROM disk with your favorite apps, and Daystar Turbo 040 compatibility), so what you seek doesn't exist. It's not a question of having sufficient room to include a ROM disk, but a question of integrating the code that implements the ROM disk into the Turbo 040 code. Theoretically that should be possible, but it's semi-unknown territory and would require some substantial reverse engineering work from someone. 

Please forgive me, but I am a bit more confused now and I would like to clarify my understanding as follows... 

The way I have understood the ROM-inator II SIMM is that you at the very least need a ROM file (e.g., an exact copy of an SE/30 ROM, IIsi ROM, IIfx ROM, or IIci ROM that is filename formatted as "*.rom") to burn into the ROM-inator II SIM in order to allow the SE/30 to boot.  So if, for example, I had an exact copy of the SE/30 stock ROM named "se30.rom" and burned that to the ROM-inator II MEGA via SIMM Programmer and then installed that SIMM into the ROM slot on my SE/30, it would boot just fine and exactly as usual.  BUT, if the ROM file burned into he ROM-inator II MEGA SIMM is a IIsi or IIfx or IIci (IIci is mere heresy because I myself have never owned one to verify it even works on the SE/30), you will get a 32-bit clean ROM that can boot into System 7.6.1 or OS 8.1, assuming you patch the System file first.  AND, to kill RAM checking on cold boot (which takes an eternity if you have 128MB of RAM) would require some kind of hack to one of those ROMs prior to burning (a hack which I don't even know exists).  AND, if you want a 32-bit clean ROM (again, IIsi or IIfx or IIci) that ALSO works fine with an attached Daystar Turbo 040 accelerator PDS card, you would also need to hack the said IIsi or IIfx or IIci base ROM in order to achieve that; which thus far, despite all the back-and-forth dialog about that ROM and past discussion threads, no one has been able to accomplish because... well... I don't know...  The Turbo 040 chip is encrypted and nobody can read out the code...?  Lack of ASM knowledge on the code that was read out...?  I don't know.

Supplementing that...

We then have the separate but related talk of adding your own DISK IMAGE (*.dsk), within which you can save some vintage Mac apps (space allowing), which would become accessible via ROM when you boot (and you seem to have the ability to choose those apps to be made accessible from either ROM or a RAM DISK, assuming you have sufficient RAM.  AND, to achieve that (i.e., to put your DISK IMAGE into your *.ROM file), you must concatenate the base ROM file (e.g., IIsi ROM file, or hacked IIsi ROM file, or stock SE/30 ROM file, etc.) with your compressed disk image file (*.fc8), as per the instructions given here, to get the needed *.rom file to burn to the ROM-inator II SIMM:

https://www.bigmessowires.com/2016/07/22/rom-disk-creation-with-rom-inator-ii/

So are you saying that some of my assumptions written above are incorrect?

 

[bigmessowires]

I think your assumptions are mostly correct, but you're omitting an important detail. The ability to use a ROM disk is another hack that must be carefully integrated into the stock ROM code. To date this has been done for the stock IIsi ROM (which works on several other machines too), but no others, and it requires some non-trivial reverse engineering work.

If you follow those instructions from my web site, with the modified IIsi ROM code that I provide, then you'll get a functioning ROM disk. If you follow those instructions but use another ROM code, such as the hacked Turbo 040 compatible ROM code that was linked at the start of this thread, you won't get a ROM disk. The extra disk image data will just sit there uselessly in memory.

 

[pb3623]

AND, if you want a 32-bit clean ROM (again, IIsi or IIfx or IIci) that ALSO works fine with an attached Daystar Turbo 040 accelerator PDS card, you would also need to hack the said IIsi or IIfx or IIci base ROM in order to achieve that; which thus far, despite all the back-and-forth dialog about that ROM and past discussion threads, no one has been able to accomplish because... well... I don't know...  The Turbo 040 chip is encrypted and nobody can read out the code...?  Lack of ASM knowledge on the code that was read out...?  I don't know.

Yes, it can and has been done. Hence, the .bin file (yes, it's a ROM - ignore the file extensions) I linked you at the beginning of the thread when it took a turn towards JDW-ville  (the ROM dougg3 created for olePigeon).

And we know creating and appending a ROM .dsk image can be done, because bigmessowires has done so and documented it (based on previous work by Rob).

I believe the current dilemma (if you want to call it that - or we can say "gap") is that we don't currently have the combination of the working ROM image with Turbo 040 patching WITH the ROM disk and there is no shortage of speculation why it doesn't just work. There's just a shortage of hired guns with the skill sets needed to dive in and work it out.

From there we talked about the 601 and other enhancements like an in-ROM GUI/menu to load the images on-the-fly (à la Floppy Emu) but the above passage in bold is my assessment of where we/you are now.

 

[JDW]

...you're omitting an important detail...

If you follow those instructions from my web site, with the modified IIsi ROM code that I provide, then you'll get a functioning ROM disk. If you follow those instructions but use another ROM code, such as the hacked Turbo 040 compatible ROM code that was linked at the start of this thread, you won't get a ROM disk. The extra disk image data will just sit there uselessly in memory.

Perfectly clarified!  Many thanks!

...we don't currently have the combination of the working ROM image with Turbo 040 patching WITH the ROM disk and there is no shortage of speculation why it doesn't just work. 

Right.  "How to add a ROM disk" is the great mystery.  Everything else you and dougg3 kindly clarified earlier...

Yes, it's 32-bit clean. Here is the ROM image (thanks again to OlePigeon): olePigeonPatchedROM-normalchecksum_disabled.bin - so it's the 040 driver, memory test disabled and some other features that you won't see with the accelerator installed (again courtesy of OlePigeon - his custom boot chime and icon are pretty awesome). So give it a try with your programmer. Just make sure the SIMM capacity is correct and write to the entire thing.

I made olePigeon's Turbo 040 ROM image. There's nothing really special about it -- it's a stock IIci ROM with a couple of minor changes. I disabled the ROM checksum test and gave him a custom startup chime (I think) and happy mac logo. I did all of this before bbraun's ROM disk driver existed, so it doesn't support the ROM disk driver. A stock IIci or IIsi ROM would probably also have worked with the Turbo 040, as far as I know. A lot of this was documented in my original "Another IIci ROM hack" thread which mysteriously disappeared after the forum upgrade. :-(

 

[off]

Good to know! So it has to be some kind of simple "encryption" if we even want to call it that.

If anyone's interested, I've got an archive of all versions of the Turbo040 ROM that I could get my hands on (3.07, 4.01 and 4.11 - the latter two are also in Trag's archive).

I dumped all the ROMs offline and in-system (dumped with copyroms), with the latter containing actual strings in the dumps such as "Turbo 040Macintosh II, IIx, IIcx, IIci, IIsi, IIvi,   IIvx, SE/30, and Performa 600" (which is exactly what's displayed in the Turbo040 Utility).

View attachment Daystar Turbo 040 ROMs.zip

 

[PB145B]

Damn! That’s a nice SE/30! The SE/30 is already super fast even with the stock CPU, so I can’t even imagine how fast an 040 one would be!

 

[ants]

I just stumbled across this thread - but I thought I'd mention that I recently upgraded the ROM in my Turbo 040. I've got a few PLCC32 rom chips left (they came in a pack of 5), and I have a programmer - so if anybody needs a 4.11 ROM I'd be happy to send you one.

All you'd need is an extractor tool, which are pretty cheap to buy online:

 

[JDW]

I purchased my Turbo040 40MHz card from ARTMIX in 2005 and at that time paid him roughly $60 to do the 4.1.1 ROM upgrade.  You can see a photo of my card below.  Click the photo to open it on Flickr so you can read more info about it in the text description below the photo there.

 

[pb3623]

I just stumbled across this thread - but I thought I'd mention that I recently upgraded the ROM in my Turbo 040. I've got a few PLCC32 rom chips left (they came in a pack of 5), and I have a programmer - so if anybody needs a 4.11 ROM I'd be happy to send you one.

Thanks for the offer! (I'm OP)

I'm in DC this week but put me down for one - I'm almost certain my Turbo 040 has an older ROM. I'll PM you - I think I can find the original listing I bought it from and should be able to check the photos. 

 

[pb3623]

Damn! That’s a nice SE/30! The SE/30 is already super fast even with the stock CPU, so I can’t even imagine how fast an 040 one would be!

Not as fast as what I think it might do with a 601 card but that's just greedy... the Snooper benchmarks have it right there at 100% the speed of a (also 33 MHz) Quadra 950. 

 

[PB145B]

the Snooper benchmarks have it right there at 100% the speed of a (also 33 MHz) Quadra 950. 

That's awesome!

 

[JDW]

What's NOT awesome though is the fact that the 040 is not as software-compatible as 030 accelerators, which is why I use my 50MHz 030 DiiMO card most of the time.  It's super fast and super compatible.  The 040 is of course faster (with its cache enabled) but again, not all apps play well with it.  It also draws a lot of power, which means we either need to recap our existing PSUs or swap out the internals for a compatible ATX supply.

 

[PB145B]

What's NOT awesome though is the fact that the 040 is not as software-compatible as 030 accelerators,

Wow, didn’t know that! I really want one of those socketed Daystar 030 accelerators for my socketed SE/30! That DiiMO looks pretty sweet too.

 

[pb3623]

What's NOT awesome though is the fact that the 040 is not as software-compatible as 030 accelerators, which is why I use my 50MHz 030 DiiMO card most of the time.  It's super fast and super compatible.  The 040 is of course faster (with its cache enabled) but again, not all apps play well with it.  It also draws a lot of power, which means we either need to recap our existing PSUs or swap out the internals for a compatible ATX supply.

This is an excellent point and I didn't mention the roughly 20% of sessions where I have some sort of freeze... the rest of the time, it could run for days on end. Still, I do occasionally swap it back out for the 50 MHz 030 PowerCache to have a desk full of A/UX goodness (w/ a IIci, Q700 and Q950)

 

[Bolle]

That's why everyone should have multiple SE/30 setups. Swapping around accelerators is a pain

I am running 40MHz Turbo040 with ethernet in one, another machine has a 50MHz PowerCache with ethernet and grayscale and even another one with 50MHz PowerCache, ethernet and a Formac color card.

The 040 experience is the same for me as some others already stated... it runs way faster than the 50MHz PowerCache but not as stable - especially if I go for more than one PDS card next to the Turbo040.

I would love to try out the DiiMo one day to see if it performs any better than the PowerCache due to the 64K cache on there.

All my machines run on stock power supplies btw.

 

[hilga007]

Hey there! Just replying after all these years to see if you are gonna work on the 601 card now that “The Quarantine” is upon us!

 

[pb3623]

Ha! It has been a while, for sure...

I still have the Turbo 601 but I'm not the one to figure this out... it's way out of my league but I'd certainly consider lending it out if someone wants to take a crack at it. 

 

[hilga007]

Ha! It has been a while, for sure...

I still have the Turbo 601 but I'm not the one to figure this out... it's way out of my league but I'd certainly consider lending it out if someone wants to take a crack at it. 

Ah, dang! Thought that would be a cool project to witness lmao. 
 

But hey if you ever decide you wanna get rid of your amazing SE/30.... or if you ever need to use it for a collateral loan... hit me up LMAO

 

[hilga007]

That's why everyone should have multiple SE/30 setups. Swapping around accelerators is a pain

I am running 40MHz Turbo040 with ethernet in one, another machine has a 50MHz PowerCache with ethernet and grayscale and even another one with 50MHz PowerCache, ethernet and a Formac color card.

The 040 experience is the same for me as some others already stated... it runs way faster than the 50MHz PowerCache but not as stable - especially if I go for more than one PDS card next to the Turbo040.

I would love to try out the DiiMo one day to see if it performs any better than the PowerCache due to the 64K cache on there.

All my machines run on stock power supplies btw.

Oh! Please say you still have these machines? Would make for some fun quarantine tinker projects

 

[Bolle]

I do, in fact it are even more tuned up SE/30s now I can't even remember all the exact configurations.

They all do have an accelerator, ethernet card and a graphics card of some sort though. I will have to get them all out of storage on one of these days and document all their internals.

Also I can say now that I have a few DiiMOs they are only a tiny little bit faster than the PowerCache in most benchmarks but you can't actually feel a difference when using it.