Carrera040 & RominatorII on SE/30 compatibility issues

[ironborn65]

I am experiencing difficulties with the Carrera040 (Bolle's version) and the ROM-inator II on my SE/30.

Observations:​

1. Boot Behavior:
   • The system boots in 32-bit mode using the ROM-inator II with a patched System 7.5.5.
   • System 7.5.5 was installed clean and is the Universal version.
2. Extension Issue:
   • With the Carrera040 patched extension disabled, the system boots successfully.
   • When I enable the extension (speed is set to Auto) and reboot, the system begins complaining about extensions such as Foreign File Access.
   • If I remove Foreign File Access, it complains about PC Exchange, followed by a generic bomb error.

Additional Information:​

• A thread on Tinker Different suggests that the Carrera040 and ROM-inator II are compatible, but my experience seems to indicate otherwise. Perhaps Steve @bigmessowires or @Bolle could provide more insight.
• It's worth noting that I have successfully used this same Mac SE/30 and Carrera040 with the stock ROM and Mode32 without encountering these issues.

Other Observations:​

• The system sometimes freezes during boot, resembling the symptoms of an overheated CPU.
  • I've installed a heatsink and a large fan to address this, although these measures were unnecessary with the custom ROM.
  • The CPU is the 33Mhz version

 

[demik]

I seem to remember the opposite.

The way the Carrera works is that it's patch some handlers in the operating system. There is a system specific detection that applies different patches for different Mac Models, and a few other things (Virtual Memory, RAM size maybe). If you are using a custom ROM, you might mess with the thing that override system handlers and patch will be incomplete or incompatible.

The issue already happens with 7.5.5 as you need to patch it as well. Not sure both patches can work together
This is hit or miss. What about 7.1 ?

Whoever has a better memory than me please chime in

 

[croissantking]

There’s no compatibility issues with the Rominator and Carrera040. I have had issues like you describe that turned out to be a voltage issue - have you measured your +5V?

 

[ironborn65]

I can measure a stable +V4.97 and +V12.7 also during the performance test

the logic board was already recapped
the analogue board is "brand new" from an unused Apple stock (a lucky find)
the PSU has not been recapped
I reinstalled back the stock ROM + Mode32 + System 7.5.5 (of course unpatched) + Carrera040 and it flies as it should.
Ah .. I also have Bolle's GrayCake card.

and the CPU is not as hot as it was with the BMOW ROM ... I understand it all seems weird.

 

[jmacz]

I had posted similar issues with a custom rom, the graycake, and a DayStar PowerCache 50mhz on a riser board. If the PowerCache is active, I get crashes after the cache on the PowerCache kicks in. Bolle thought it might be voltages and/or timing issues after all that stuff is installed. I got it semi stable after hardwiring 5V directly from the PSU to the logic board and increasing the gauge of the 5V lines. It almost always worked if I soft reset the machine after the first crash. But that’s the best I got. I never got it perfect.

I punted on the DayStar and I am using ZigZagJoe’s 47MHz socketed booster and it’s perfectly stable with the graycake, and custom rom. The DayStar is back in my IIci.

 

[ironborn65]

thanks @jmacz for the insignt, I'm looking for suggestions here.
I will do some more tests enabling/disabling the cache, but what puzzles me is that the 68040 with the Rominator becomes so host that I can barely touch it even before enabling it in the control panel and the screen freezes, while with the stock ROM it's mildly warm and performance is as high as expected.

Are there different versions of Rominator ROM that could affect the compatibility?

 

[cheesestraws]

It's important to distinguish between the ROMinator itself and the software that's stored on it. Whether the ROMinator itself is "compatible" with the Carrera is almost certainly 'yes', because it's just a ROM. Whether whatever hacked-together ROM image that is on that ROMinator is compatible is a totally different question.

This isn't just pedantry, it opens up an important diagnostic route. Flash the stock ROM to the ROMinator. Do you still see issues? If so, it's probably electrical. If not, it's the software.

I'd also be very cautious about trusting people on the Internet who say that some hacked-together thing is fully compatible with something else (and I include any statements I myself make here, though I usually try to be more careful than that): it usually means "it worked for me, once, under non-rigorous conditions, and now I'm going to tell people who it doesn't work for that it's their problem".

 

[croissantking]

Hi @ironborn65 , is that the ROM I sent you? If it is, I would very much like to help you work out if it’s the reason you’re having issues.

 

[jmacz]

thanks @jmacz for the insignt, I'm looking for suggestions here.

Yup, just mentioning my observations since I had almost identical symptoms with a very similar setup (only difference being your Carrera vs my DayStar).

One other observation I should have mentioned, even after switching to the socketed Booster, I was getting a random lock up from time to time (better than with the DayStar). I believe I have this solved now after replacing my SE/30 ROM socket with a new one that's much better with the thinner custom ROMs. In fact, at some point I should probably remove the socketed Booster and try the DayStar again to see if that might have been my original issue but too lazy right now to open up the SE/30 and remove everything to get the logic board out.

I know you posted in my other thread that you solved the thin custom ROM issue by reflowing the contacts on the custom ROM. I never went that route because although I think each of the individual contacts in the ROM socket have a little bit of individual play/motion, I remember it being very little and I was always worried that if I didn't get the thickness of the reflow pads nearly the same, I would have uneven contact of the ROM with the socket so I just replaced the socket itself which was super easy.

 

[zigzagjoe]

Yup, just mentioning my observations since I had almost identical symptoms with a very similar setup (only difference being your Carrera vs my DayStar).

One other observation I should have mentioned, even after switching to the socketed Booster, I was getting a random lock up from time to time (better than with the DayStar). I believe I have this solved now after replacing my SE/30 ROM socket with a new one that's much better with the thinner custom ROMs. In fact, at some point I should probably remove the socketed Booster and try the DayStar again to see if that might have been my original issue but too lazy right now to open up the SE/30 and remove everything to get the logic board out.

I know you posted in my other thread that you solved the thin custom ROM issue by reflowing the contacts on the custom ROM. I never went that route because although I think each of the individual contacts in the ROM socket have a little bit of individual play/motion, I remember it being very little and I was always worried that if I didn't get the thickness of the reflow pads nearly the same, I would have uneven contact of the ROM with the socket so I just replaced the socket itself which was super easy.

I agree, adding solder to a ROM is as best a band-aid. Solder is softer than the contacts and usually will not hold up long term. It also tends to overtravel contacts (pushing further than design) so they bend rather than press harder as intended.

It's just not worth the trouble to try to limp it along as it'll just come back to get you.

Also, you need to recap that PSU yesterday. You are asking a lot of a 30 year old PSU on original caps.

 

[ironborn65]

k, I got news.

I installed a RominatorII I got from Siliconinsider, ... and it all works just fine.
Same SD card with the same boot image: 7.5.5
Graycake, Ethernet, Cache, Carrera040 work without a single issue.
I reinstalled the one I got from @croissantking and the boot issues start.
Back the Siliconinsider and it all works.

So now, it has to do with the ROM version I think. Is there a way to read the version??
Mind that I don't have the ROMmate II Programmer, so I can not download the ROM.

BTW: both the ROMS have been refluxed with lead on the pads.

 

[croissantking]

k, I got news.

I installed a RominatorII I got from Siliconinsider, ... and it all works just fine.
Same SD card with the same boot image: 7.5.5
Graycake, Ethernet, Cache, Carrera040 work without a single issue.
I reinstalled the one I got from @croissantking and the boot issues start.
Back the Siliconinsider and it all works.

So now, it has to do with the ROM version I think. Is there a way to read the version??
Mind that I don't have the ROMmate II Programmer, so I can not download the ROM.

BTW: both the ROMS have been refluxed with lead on the pads.

Oh jeez! I’m sorry @ironborn65 - I had no idea I could have screwed something so simple up like cloning a ROM. I used the BMOW base ROM image from Steve Chamberlain’s website and modified the ROM disk very slightly (which shouldn’t affect anything).

Clearly, something has gone wrong.

I’ve had issues similar to yours with my Carrera 040 which I attributed to low voltage, but I now suspect it was due to my custom made ROM-inator, the same as the one I sent you. I simply never thought to make the connection to the ROM because it’s so bizarre that it would work fine under normal conditions and then fall down with an upgrade.

I will need to test this out in the new year and see why it’s happening - in particular if it’s an electrical or ROM image issue.

 

[ironborn65]

No worries @croissantking , it's clearly a very rare circumstance here. You offered a refund on a private conversation, very kind of you. We will work it out.

A different ROM image is not the culprit because it boots from my SD, my image.

An electronic issue? It might be, but it's outside of my comfort of my zone.

 

[micheledipaola]

IDK if this older thread about me dealing with a similar issue may help you somehow:

Carrera SE30 control and Bolle Carrera040 in the Mac SE/30

Hi everybody, I have had the fantastic @Bolle set of slot expander + ethernet bracket + Carrera 040 clone in my SE30 for a while and everything was perfect. I had to reinstall System and I wasn't able to find the old Carrera SE30 control - and if I use the newer one (v.1.8) it hangs at boot on...

68kmla.org

 

[falecore]

IDK if this older thread about me dealing with a similar issue may help you somehow:

Carrera SE30 control and Bolle Carrera040 in the Mac SE/30

Hi everybody, I have had the fantastic @Bolle set of slot expander + ethernet bracket + Carrera 040 clone in my SE30 for a while and everything was perfect. I had to reinstall System and I wasn't able to find the old Carrera SE30 control - and if I use the newer one (v.1.8) it hangs at boot on...

68kmla.org

Hi micheledipaola, yes I follow your thread closely bc I am having same issues. I did everything you did to get it working but still freeze when CDEV icon loads. Only difference between our setups is I am using a MacCon and Bolle Topper card instead of the combo adaptor. Ive tried multiple SE/30's, followed your instructions as written and cannot get it to not freeze at boot. I even installed a TTDesign PSU with 5v AUX running 5V directoly into the board with no success. At this point, I think I will just test the carrera in my IIci to make sure I didnt bork the card somehow,but otherwise I am about ready to throw in the towel.​

 

[falecore]

IDK if this older thread about me dealing with a similar issue may help you somehow:

Carrera SE30 control and Bolle Carrera040 in the Mac SE/30

Hi everybody, I have had the fantastic @Bolle set of slot expander + ethernet bracket + Carrera 040 clone in my SE30 for a while and everything was perfect. I had to reinstall System and I wasn't able to find the old Carrera SE30 control - and if I use the newer one (v.1.8) it hangs at boot on...

68kmla.org

It hangs at Carrera CDEV boot icon on my IIci! I guess its a hardware issue?

 

[micheledipaola]

It hangs at Carrera CDEV boot icon on my IIci! I guess its a hardware issue?

Hi, in my case I was sure the Carrera was working before, so I was able to rule this option out from the beginning.
I know it sounds silly but... did you try with a totally fresh install of 7.1 as I wrote, literally zapping the disk and starting from srcratch?

 

[falecore]

Hi, in my case I was sure the Carrera was working before, so I was able to rule this option out from the beginning.
I know it sounds silly but... did you try with a totally fresh install of 7.1 as I wrote, literally zapping the disk and starting from srcratch?

Yes, I did a fresh install of 7.1 Can you tell me how you formatted the SD card? My only thought is that perhaps it is RAM related, as Bolle mentioned that it can be sensitive when it comes to RAM, or it could be the MacCon card. I am basically out of ideas at this point. Thanks for following up.