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My first Apple computer, a Mac IIcx

rodders

Member
I've been tinkering with computers for years, mostly Acorn machines for fun but I've never owned or even used an Apple.
While trawling ebay for more Acorns I stumbled across a IIcx and monitor for sale at a very low start price and no bids with only a few hours to go.
I thought I'd put in a cheeky bid and I won it! (For much less than I'd pay for an Acorn of a similar era)
I'm only now realising the enormity of my decision as I know nothing about these computers or what sort of support is available (hardware, software and moral!)
It's filthy but I'm hoping it will clean up but I don't know what I'll find inside, although i do know the HD has been removed.
From what little I've read so far it sounds like it will need re-capping. This is generally frowned upon by the Acorn community but it seems that Apple used some dodgy caps back in the day.
Having found this forum I thought it worth signing up to see if you can help a poor Apple virgin.
I have a few questions to get started:
  1. Where to begin? Take photos, light clean, disassemble and assess?
  2. What are the common problems? Battery leakage, cap failure, anything else?
  3. Recapping - is it worth replacing the lot or are some areas worse than others? Should i change SMD electrolytic for tantalum? (I believe the PCB has both SMD pads and through holes-is this true?)
  4. I assume it won't boot without a HD so what options? I'm guessing that I'm unlikely to find a reliable SCSI drive so which of the many SD solutions would you recommend?
  5. Where are the best resources to help breathe life back into this Mac?
That's probably enough for now unless you think I've missed something important.
 

Phipli

Well-known member
@cheesestraws another Acorn person :)

@rodders I have a pile of Model B's, a very sickly Master, an Electron and an A3010 :)


I have a few questions to get started:
  1. Where to begin? Take photos, light clean, disassemble and assess?
Sounds good. Close up photos of where there are clusters of caps and where the battery is. Remove the battery instantly if it is more than 10 years old.
  1. What are the common problems? Battery leakage, cap failure, anything else?
Those two mainly. PSUs fail too, fairly often in those.
Also speed - the cx is a bit of a slow coach.
  1. Recapping - is it worth replacing the lot or are some areas worse than others? Should i change SMD electrolytic for tantalum? (I believe the PCB has both SMD pads and through holes-is this true?)
That machine's logic board is a "recap on sight" rather than a recap on condition machine, so yes, it needs recapping on principle. Only the electrolytics in the logic board, and personally I replace the 47uF tin cans with 25v tantalum capacitors. Physically smaller electrolytic caps with higher voltage ratings I replace with similarly rated tantalums. There is usually like, one 1uF at 50V... I forget specifically for the IIcx at the moment.

I didn't think the IIcx had through hole pads?
  1. I assume it won't boot without a HD so what options? I'm guessing that I'm unlikely to find a reliable SCSI drive so which of the many SD solutions would you recommend?
If can also boot from floppy drive. SCSI to SD adapters are fairly expensive, assuming you are UK based. Where in the country are you? This needs working out based on what suits you.
  1. Where are the best resources to help breathe life back into this Mac?
Hum. Probably start here and then see what route the project is taking. There are (bad) schematics for your machine and books that describe the hardware in extreme detail like this one :

 

cheesestraws

Well-known member
I've been tinkering with computers for years, mostly Acorn machines for fun but I've never owned or even used an Apple.

One of us! Do I recognise your nick from stardot, perchance?

From what little I've read so far it sounds like it will need re-capping. This is generally frowned upon by the Acorn community but it seems that Apple used some dodgy caps back in the day.

Yes, it will. Apple used physically very small caps and I don't think they're particularly good ones, either. So they leak. It's like the problems that the A4 has in Acorn-land, but over the whole product range. Acorn, at least pre-RiscPC, tended to use physically larger capacitors which I think are more leak-resistant (presumably because they have thicker walls and better seals?)

Where to begin? Take photos, light clean, disassemble and assess?

Yup! In general, this list seems to be in the right order to me.

What are the common problems? Battery leakage, cap failure, anything else?

Battery leakage, cap failure, and their consequences. Battery leakage - Mac boards of the period are far harder to fix than Acorn boards in my experience. That said, you may well be better at this than me, and people do regularly bring back boards that I'd have filed as irredeemably dead. Capacitor damage - the juice is slightly corrosive and can damage traces and especially can get into vias and cause issues. On the IIcx, capacitor juice will often take out the startup circuit, so do not immediately get sad if it won't run.

Recapping - is it worth replacing the lot or are some areas worse than others? Should i change SMD electrolytic for tantalum? (I believe the PCB has both SMD pads and through holes-is this true?)

You need to replace all the surface mount capacitors on the logic board. It's not their electrical characteristics are the problem, it's the gloop they are physically leaking everywhere. In my experience, Macs are remarkably unfussy about precisely what capacitors they have - and in fact Apple only really used a handful of values of SMD electrolytic capacitors throughout the 68k range. It's very much optimised for manufacturing cost.

I personally use tantalums, largely because I bought a lot of them ages ago and I'm still working through them. Tantalum is, of course, a conflict mineral, so you should probably be careful about who you buy from to make sure their supply chain is properly audited. Other people have had luck with solid aluminium can capacitors, and I know of a couple of people using MLCCs even. Others swear by Niobium caps, and they may have a point, they're a bit less incendiary than tantalums if things go wrong. But I don't think it matters overly much. FWIW, I probably wouldn't use tantalums if I were starting again now - I'd probably go for solid polymer can caps instead.

You will generally not damage a cap leaked machine by trying to turn it on to see if it goes. You do not need to be too careful here.

I assume it won't boot without a HD so what options?

It won't boot, but it will get to a flashing question mark to say there's no boot drive, so you can test that most of the computer is working without a SCSI drive. If you can't get it to a flashing question mark, there's no point in buying an HD-alike until you can.

which of the many SD solutions would you recommend?

First, old SCSI drives are surprisingly robust. I usually leave mine in place until they break and quite a number of my machines have their original drives in still.

This is an amusingly politicised question. Personally, I use a mixture of ZuluSCSIs, MacSDs, and more modern SCSI drives with an adapter from @max1zzz. All of these are very competent options, with different tradeoffs: ZuluSCSI is probably the most throughput per unit money of the solid-state options, MacSD wins on features (especially CD-ROM emulation and the really cool hardware MIDI synthesiser it provides) and the adaptors for more recent SCSI drives are probably the best value for money overall if you have or can get hold of newer SCSI drives.

I steer very clear of BlueSCSI personally: I got very tired of being abused by the BlueSCSI folks for posting links to datasheets. They are the kind of people who prefer to concentrate on their "vision" rather than the engineering realities of the situation, and the BlueSCSI v1 was consequently electrically a disaster and instead of fixing this with the absolute pennies'-worth of components it would have taken, they chose to just shout at people instead. The v2 is basically a zuluscsi clone with worse PCB layout and support. If you have the patience for that kind of behaviour in your hobby time, it's an option. Personally, I don't, and my life is concretely better for jettisoning that as an option.

Where are the best resources to help breathe life back into this Mac?

A lot of it is probably here!

You'll need a video adapter first of all, though, if you haven't got one with the machine. Apple standardised on a two-row 15-pin D connector for video quite early and kept using it until well into the PowerMac period. So you'll need a mac to VGA adapter. The main purpose of these is to adapt the pinout and to set the monitor detection pins on the Mac side so that the Mac thinks it has a specific type of monitor. Some do not have DIP switches, and they tend to tell the mac that it's got a multisync monitor and lets it deal with that: others have DIP switches that let you set what kind of monitor you want to pretend to have. The best ones for 68k macs have 10 DIP switches, which will let you pretend to the Mac that your monitor is anything. Be aware it might take some fiddling to find a compromise between the Mac and the monitor.

A decent recapping guide is here: https://recapamac.com.au/macintosh-iicx/ - I haven't personally recapped a IIcx, but his other recapping guides have been good in my experience.

But yes, before anything else, take the lid off, have a look at the state of the insides, post photos of the board, and see if it already goes in its current state. :)
 

Phipli

Well-known member
You will generally not damage a cap leaked machine by trying to turn it on to see if it goes. You do not need to be too careful here.
One exception - if you do this galvanic corrosion occurs if there is electrolyte on the board... I'd say clean the board first. Especially if you don't do all the repairs reasonably soon afterwards. It hits the higher power pins on chips and power traces.
 
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Snial

Well-known member
I've been tinkering with computers for years, mostly Acorn machines for fun but I've never owned or even used an Apple.
While trawling ebay for more Acorns I stumbled across a IIcx and monitor for sale at a very low start price and no bids with only a few hours to go.
I thought I'd put in a cheeky bid and I won it! (For much less than I'd pay for an Acorn of a similar era)
Brilliant! Well done!

There are probably quite a few (mostly Brit) Acorn fans on the 68kmla. I started out with Sinclair computers, but at Uni two of my best friends were Acorn fans, so I learned quite a bit about the elegance and efficiency of the 6502 (BBC Basic of course was also exceptional, except I liked the ZX editor and single keyword entry). I have had an Atom since the early 90s; an Acorn 3020 (3MB/200MB) since the early 2000s (chucked out from a primary school) and a pair of BBC micros (which don't yet fully work) for the past few years. Also, I was in the Amulet Research Group at Manchester Uni, run by the legendary Steve Furber! Also... I made it to the 40th anniversary of the BBC Micro at ARM in Cambridge!

So, you're in good company!

  1. Where to begin? Take photos, light clean, disassemble and assess?
Everyone will want to see the photos, especially before it's been cleaned up! The IIcx is a well respected Mac, because it was fairly compact, early Colour Mac, but supported NuBus expansion; FPUs and High Density floppy drives. One can't underestimate the cuteness of the round corners of the case and how they very much suit the size and Snow White (grubby Snow White in your case) design language. I had one for a while, before passing it on to a friend, launching their Mac affiliation which persists to today.

3. I assume it won't boot without a HD so what options? I'm guessing that I'm unlikely to find a reliable SCSI drive so which of the many SD solutions would you recommend?
People will recommend a Zulu SCSI to SD adapter, which is probably a good idea. The Iicx can boot from an external SCSI Zip drive too. It can boot from its 1.4MB floppy as it could run System 6, which could fit.

Have fun!
 

ClassicGuyPhilly

Well-known member
Welcome to the board rodders and congratulations on your first Mac computer! You're in great hands with the folks on this forum, amazing group of people and endless knowledge and expertise!
 

rodders

Member
@rodders I have a pile of Model B's, a very sickly Master, an Electron and an A3010
I have an upgraded model A (from new) with recapped PSU after it took up smoking; a Master from ebay with upgrades for SD hard drive and RPi second processor; a RiscPC running RiscOS 4 and Win95, and a basket case RiscPC that I'm trying to revive.
One of us! Do I recognise your nick from stardot, perchance?
Indeed you do.
Where in the country are you?
I'm in Somerset.
You'll need a video adapter first of all,
I haven't picked the machine up yet but from the photos there is a video card lurking in there but I don't know what it is. It comes with a colour monitor but I have no idea if that works either.
Everyone will want to see the photos
I'll post some as soon as I get it.
Many thanks to you all for the advice and encouragement.
 

cheesestraws

Well-known member
I haven't picked the machine up yet but from the photos there is a video card lurking in there but I don't know what it is. It comes with a colour monitor but I have no idea if that works either.

I meant an adapter for the difference in pinout, rather than a video card. But if you've also got a matching monitor this is less urgent :)
 

Melkhior

Well-known member
I stumbled across a IIcx and monitor for sale at a very low start price and no bids with only a few hours to go.
Lucky you!

The IIcx is a very interesting piece of history, though it ain't fast with a 16 MHz 68030+68882 and no cache.

It introduced the narrow, under-monitor, yet expansible (mostly 3 expansion slots) form factor to the Mac product lines. Previous Macs where either the famous compact with its signature 9" B&W monitor, or the extremely large 6-slots II and IIx. The IIcx was the first in a very long line of such form factor, some with a very similar design (the faster IIci and the 68040-using Quadra 700), some with a significantly updated design that was ever longer-lived (used with some variations in the IIvi, IIvx, Quadra 650, PowerMacintosh 7100, 7200, 7500, 7600 and some G3).

As others mentioned, many Macs from this era are vulnerable to battery damage or capacitor leakage. Also the PSU is very unreliable. If bad come to worse for the motherboard, you can check e.g. this thread, and there's plenty of solutions to use an ATX PSU with this family of machine as a stop-gap (including mine, with a switch to choose between soft-power and always-on if the soft-power circuit is dead or dying on the motherboard)

For the video adapter, if you video card uses Apple's standard 15-pins/two-rows connector, adapters are easy to make if you can't find one at a reasonable price (including my version).
 

joshc

Well-known member
I think the IIcx you bought was on my watchlist, a bit too far for me to go for and also another vintage Mac is the last thing I need. So congrats on the purchase and welcome to the forum. :)

I don't really have too much to add to the above, there's some really excellent advice there.

Although not the fastest vintage Mac, the IIcx should feel snappy under System 6. It can run System 7 fine but it's definitely more suited to System 6 in my opinion.

The most common issues with the IIcx are caused by the startup circuit and sound circuit and the power supply. As mentioned above most of these are capacitor related. Take your time with the repair work and enjoy it!
 

rodders

Member
Well here it is in all its glory. Its been in a loft for many years but how it got this dirty I'll never know.
Looks more like Cinderella Design (before the fairy godmother) than Snow White!
I don't know how to identify the graphics card, there doesn't seem to be any silk screen id. It looks like you can have on-board RAM and SIMMs - is that correct?
What I can see of the motherboard just looks dusty (sorry about the quality, I'll do more pics when its out of the case), the visible caps show no goo, but I guess the worst ones will be under the drive box. Four SIMMs so does that make it a 4Mb system?
The worst part seems to be at the side of the PSU which looks rusty, damp and slimy.
Where can I find the PRAM battery - getting that out has to be a first priority.
More pics when I start to tear it down.IMG_20230729_175044531.jpgIMG_20230729_175038594.jpgIMG_20230729_175049092.jpgIMG_20230729_175057858.jpgIMG_20230729_180003704.jpgIMG_20230729_180022941.jpg
 

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rodders

Member
No power leads but hopefully they are standard kettle leads not some Apple special.
Just noticed the broken 9 key are they easy to get?
No mouse either so I'll have to source one and a SCSI SD device for the hard drive.
 

Phipli

Well-known member
Well here it is in all its glory. Its been in a loft for many years but how it got this dirty I'll never know.
Nice, that's the older style 640*480 Trinitron 13" (14" to everyone else, in those days Apple didn't exaggerate unlike most other firms) monitor.
I don't know how to identify the graphics card, there doesn't seem to be any silk screen id. It looks like you can have on-board RAM and SIMMs - is that correct?
That is a nice card. It doesn't have hardware acceleration, but will do 640*479, 1024*768 and 1152*870, plus a lower resolution. At 640*480 it will do 256 colours with the onboard VRAM. If you populate the SIMMs, it will do 24bit colour!
What I can see of the motherboard just looks dusty (sorry about the quality, I'll do more pics when its out of the case), the visible caps show no goo,
There will be. It isn't as obvious as you expect.
Four SIMMs so does that make it a 4Mb system?
Depends, it can take up to 16MB SIMMs, so technically that could be 1MB, 4MB, 16MB or 64MB. 4MB total is most likely.

Take care, the clips on the RAM Slots go very brittle with age. Its difficult not to break them when removing RAM. Super super care needed.
Where can I find the PRAM battery - getting that out has to be a first priority.
Its under the hard disk / floppy drive bracket if I remember.
 

Phipli

Well-known member
No power leads but hopefully they are standard kettle leads not some Apple special.
Standard parts.
Just noticed the broken 9 key are they easy to get?
They are about, but can it be fixed? Bit of glue? Its a mechanical keyboard worth repair and I'm not mad in encouraging the scrappers.
No mouse either so I'll have to source one
Ask in a trade post here. Needs to be ADB.
 
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Phipli

Well-known member
I don't know how to identify the graphics card, there doesn't seem to be any silk screen id.
I forgot to say. The official name of that card is the "Macintosh Display Card 4•8".

It is electrically the same as the 8•24, which just has more soldered VRAM and doesn't have SIMM slots. The 8•24 card does 24bit out of the box.

These cards are completely different to the 8•24 GC.
 

joshc

Well-known member
I was going to say that looks like one of Apple's video cards but Phipli beat me to it. They weren't cheap back in the day. Unless I'm mistaken, a IIcx came without a video card so it was up to the customer to buy their own separately. Possibly the same for the keyboard as well. Only the original square wedge ADB mouse would've been supplied in the box with the IIcx. It was called a IIcx because it's the compact II and the x stood for it having an 68030 processor. They couldn't name the next Macintosh SE with an 68030 in the same way, otherwise it would've been a Macintosh SEx... so they went for SE/30 instead.

In terms of take apart / tear down instructions, you may find this useful. Apple Service Source was what Apple provided their authorised dealers with, who would service these machines back then. It contains all the take apart guides you'll need. I've also attached this pdf to my forum post in case the preterhuman link ever disappears.


Power supply voltages can be tested using the DB19 port, but this will only be useful once the machine is actually switched on and running. For it to start, two parts need to be functional: the start-up circuit on the IIcx logic board, and the 5V trickle and associated circuitry in the power supply; both are known to cause issues. I can't see which power supply you've got from your photos, but if it's an Astec unit, these were known at the time to have a design flaw with the 5V trickle which could cause problems.

Below is a schematic of the IIcx startup circuit. It can look like a minefield before you familiarise yourself with it. It was derived from the earlier II/IIx startup circuit. The priority is replacement of the original electrolytic can-style aluminium capacitors on the logic board, but if problems remain, the circuitry below is a good place to start looking.

The IIcx has what is called soft power, a fancy feature at the time that allowed the computer to be powered on via the power button on the ADB keyboard. The Mac lies in a switched off state, with the power supply ready to recieve a signal from the logic board to be switched on. This is done either by the power button on the ADB keyboard, or the switch on the rear panel of the IIcx. The switch itself has an 'always on' mode if it is turned clockwise I believe - this would be useful for users who wanted the machine to always remain on and to instantly start as soon as power was applied.

Doug Brown explained this circuit much better than I ever could. He covered its use in the II/IIx, which is slightly different from this one, but mostly the same, so have a read of that as well if you're interested in learning a bit more about how this works: https://www.downtowndougbrown.com/2015/03/explanation-of-the-macintosh-iiiix-power-onoff-circuit/

1690677340172.png

Bomarc was a third party, I believe some sort of Apple repairer/technician who hand illustrated his own schematics for several 68k Macs back around the early-mid 90s. They were published for sale back then but have since found their way into the wild, I've attached the IIcx schematic pdf to this post.

These schematics, being hand drawn and basically reverse engineered without access to the original Apple schematics, do therefore have various inaccuracies but I believe on the whole are mostly correct and a good guide for various troubleshooting if you find yourself in a situation that requires it.

Where are the best resources to help breathe life back into this Mac?
Beyond hardware level repair that you'll need to tackle first, the next question that follows neatly on from your last is where to obtain software. Fortunately a lot of software was developed for 68k Macs, over a fairly extended period, both by Apple and also by third party software vendors. Much of it has been archived here: https://macintoshgarden.org/ . The only dowside to this fairly extensive archive is its lack of effective search, leaving it up to you to somehow sift through thousands of titles to find what you want. If you give us an idea of what you're interested in, I'm sure numerous people here could provide some recommendations. There is a fairly extensive set of software tools, utilities, and accessories that can be used on a Mac to infinitely improve its usefulness, and most importantly of all, to get as much fun out of it as possible.

We can cover it in more detail later when you reach that point, but there will be various ways you can get software onto your IIcx. These somewhat depend on your budget and also on your preference of how you'd like to use the system. Some people prefer to use the original floppy drive (if it functions) and load software on disks that way, but then you have to tackle the not so small task of finding a way to correctly format disks for it. Since the IIcx has an external DB19 floppy port, the FloppyEmu can be used as well - a modern emulation device that plugs into the external port and allows you to load disk images onto an SD card and use them with the Mac as if they were real floppies. https://www.bigmessowires.com/floppy-emu/

Beyond the FloppyEmu, there are various SCSI -> SD card devices for either the external or internal SCSI on the IIcx. I won't list them all here just yet, but this is one of the most popular options for getting a IIcx going.

One last thing that may be useful for a little later, once you get your IIcx to display a flashing floppy icon on a grey background, is a bootable disk image. The one I'd recommend is the System 6 Disk Tools image. Once you get to that point, let me know and I'll dig out an image you could use. Unfortunately the state of the System 6 images on the Mac Garden are a bit all over the place.

I'll stop geting carried away now as I believe you have more than enough to be looking into. Just physically cleaning that IIcx will be a job in itself, it deserves a full tear down back to an empty case, a good wash and then repair efforts can commence. I'm really looking forward to seeing how this one goes. :)
 

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