My first 68k Mac - Macintosh SE 2x 800k

[olePigeon]

@Jase If you decide to upgrade the RAM, just be extra careful with those plastic clips on the RAM slots. They will break if you're not careful. Sometimes they break anyway. You wanna just barely flex it enough for the SIMM to squeeze out as you pull the SIMM forward. I typically use my thumbs to gently pull the tabs outward while simultaneously pulling the SIMM forward with my index fingers until it just barely scrapes by.

 

[CC_333]

Built to last! It's stunning to discover that the SE was rated to remain in full-time operation for up to 15 years before the power supply would even need replacing. Could you imagine present-day Apple (or any other computer company for that matter) touting its products with that level of durability and longevity?

Tell me about it.

I recently retired an iPhone 6 Plus after more than 8 years of continuous service, and that's considered extraordinary for a modern smartphone. The average lifespan, I believe, is 2-4, maybe 5 years for Android and 5-7 for Apple, so 8 and change isn't a huge stretch, I guess, bit I still find it somewhat irksome. I also stubbornly refused to update it past iOS 9 because I wanted my "Slide to unlock" fix (yes, I know, Security!), so this is probably why I finally had to retire it, as the only reason I finally relented was that the cellular radio was beginning to act weird (though I attribute this to some kind of network glitch, because it only happened in certain areas) and email stopped working. those two things an update to iOS 12 likely would've fixed.

Considering all that, getting it to last for 15 years would be unimaginable.

And yet, the average Mac SE lasts more than 30 years easily with relatively minimal effort! If only the SE/30 and other Macs with SMD electrolytic caps could be so fortunate, as nowadays virtually all of them need to be recapped before they'll work.

c

 

[joshc]

Built to last! It's stunning to discover that the SE was rated to remain in full-time operation for up to 15 years before the power supply would even need replacing. Could you imagine present-day Apple (or any other computer company for that matter) touting its products with that level of durability and longevity?

The link you posted there is broken, can you post it again? I’m curious to read if Apple really touted a 15 year lifespan as that seems very unlike them, even for back then. I’m assuming it was just something done as part of the design but never mentioned on the marketing/sales side. It’s certainly true that SEs are very robust machines.

 

[Jase]

Not worth having less than 4MB, so getting some makes sense. It's sort of mandatory for running System 7.0.1 or 7.1, and you'll want to do that sometimes for software compatibility. For now, with 2.5MB, I recommend sticking to System 6.0.8.

Looks like the SE will remain on the operating table for a bit longer and it sounds like a dual boot will be in order.

@Jase If you decide to upgrade the RAM, just be extra careful with those plastic clips on the RAM slots. They will break if you're not careful. Sometimes they break anyway. You wanna just barely flex it enough for the SIMM to squeeze out as you pull the SIMM forward. I typically use my thumbs to gently pull the tabs outward while simultaneously pulling the SIMM forward with my index fingers until it just barely scrapes by.

I'll be going very gently. Thanks for the heads up.

Tell me about it.

I recently retired an iPhone 6 Plus after more than 8 years of continuous service, and that's considered extraordinary for a modern smartphone. The average lifespan, I believe, is 2-4, maybe 5 years for Android and 5-7 for Apple, so 8 and change isn't a huge stretch, I guess, bit I still find it somewhat irksome. I also stubbornly refused to update it past iOS 9 because I wanted my "Slide to unlock" fix (yes, I know, Security!), so this is probably why I finally had to retire it, as the only reason I finally relented was that the cellular radio was beginning to act weird (though I attribute this to some kind of network glitch, because it only happened in certain areas) and email stopped working. those two things an update to iOS 12 likely would've fixed.

Considering all that, getting it to last for 15 years would be unimaginable.

And yet, the average Mac SE lasts more than 30 years easily with relatively minimal effort! If only the SE/30 and other Macs with SMD electrolytic caps could be so fortunate, as nowadays virtually all of them need to be recapped before they'll work.

c

During the early 90s I read in the computer press that SMD components would offer more reliability than the through-hole variety. Nowadays I read everywhere on retro-forums that SMD components need to be replaced if you want the device to work/survive.

The link you posted there is broken, can you post it again? I’m curious to read if Apple really touted a 15 year lifespan as that seems very unlike them, even for back then. I’m assuming it was just something done as part of the design but never mentioned on the marketing/sales side. It’s certainly true that SEs are very robust machines.

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[cheesestraws]

I might believe that of the Sony PSUs. The Apple Singapore ones, on the other hand, I refuse to believe are rated for 15 years of anything, up to and including continued physical existence ;-)

 

[Phipli]

During the early 90s I read in the computer press that SMD components would offer more reliability than the through-hole variety. Nowadays I read everywhere on retro-forums that SMD components need to be replaced if you want the device to work/survive.

I think they are mostly better, just the early SMD electrolytics Apple used were nasty.

Later machines like PPC PCI machines seem to be going forever, ironically other than through hole components in the power supplies and plastics. Obviously there are exceptions, but I think the PowerSurge series macs are in better condition now (in terms of logic boards) than 68k macs were 10 years ago.

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"To improve sound, the speaker has moved to the front"...
Looking at you Mac Classic.

I'll be going very gently. Thanks for the heads up.

I use my nails to splay them just enough to release. As long as you don't go wild, these ones aren't anything near the problem the 90° ones are in the various Mac II family macs are.

 

[Jase]

I have news - and most of it is good.

Everything that I needed has arrived so I got to work - first by desoldering the original PRAM battery and installing a battery holder, fitting a new battery and also giving the logic board a well deserved clean with IPA. Adios to the dust bunnies too!



A very kind soul sent me some extra RAM and a boot floppy. I managed to remove the 2x 512k modules without destroying anything - thanks for the warnings to approach this gently.



After reassembling the SE, I connected the USB4VC adapter so that I could use a USB mouse and (Apple) keyboard, turned on the computer and gave a sigh of relief that the CRT hadn't been damaged by my earlier clumsiness. When I attempted to boot from floppy, there was a deafening noise from both drives respectively when the floppy was inserted. Even after manually ejecting the disk and restarting this noise continued so I ended up disconnecting both drives from the logic board and move onto SCSI - which is what I'd envisaged anyway as the best means for loading software.

I found this pack that contains tons of software and various config options and renamed one of the .VHD files to "HD1.HDA" and copied it over to ZuluSCSI's SD card, switched on the SE and held my breath...




Success - and an impressively fast boot time too!



Wow, the OS has consumed almost 1.5MB of 4MB RAM. It's pretty sluggish too - I could see the computer struggling with opening, closing and moving windows. Thankfully there's the option to use System Picker and switch to the far more lightweight System 6. All in all, this has been fantastic and I couldn't have pulled it off without help from the community. Thanks so much!

There's a couple of issues that I'll have to sort out:

• There's no sound from the internal speaker. I'd noticed that the Mac failed to emit a boop and had assumed that the volume just needed to be adjusted within the OS - which was the first thing that I did but this hasn't made a difference. I connected headphones to the headphone jack and was then able to hear the audio but it only plays on one side. It would appear that there's a fault on the logic board, any suggestions as to what that could be?
• I'm unable to get the case to close up properly, is this common or have I overlooked something obvious?

Thanks again.

 

[Jase]

• There's no sound from the internal speaker. I'd noticed that the Mac failed to emit a boop and had assumed that the volume just needed to be adjusted within the OS - which was the first thing that I did but this hasn't made a difference. I connected headphones to the headphone jack and was then able to hear the audio but it only plays on one side. It would appear that there's a fault on the logic board, any suggestions as to what that could be?

I've had a look through the owners guide and the audio jack is described as mono.



There are some mono audio jacks that will produce dual mono sound on the left and right for stereo headphones and Hi-fi's but I suspect this is not one of them. Would I be correct in assuming this is why the audio only plays on one side with my headphones?

 

[halkyardo]

Did you remember to plug the 2-pin speaker connector back in when you put it back together? It's easy to miss, especially if the cable has fallen back into the upper part of the case.

As far as getting the case to close up, mine is a little bit touchy about that too. Make sure that the metal-foil shielding tray isn't caught on anything, and make sure that both sides of the rear 'bucket' are clean, and that they tuck inside the lip of the front case instead of slipping outside of it. Even so, on my SE and SE/30, the case doesn't fully close until I pull it in by gently tightening the screws.

 

[Jase]

Did you remember to plug the 2-pin speaker connector back in when you put it back together? It's easy to miss, especially if the cable has fallen back into the upper part of the case.

The speaker has never worked from the day that I bought the SE. The computer has never produced the start up sound. When I dismantled it, the speaker cable was attached to the logic board and I definitely reattached it during reassembly but it's never worked.

As far as getting the case to close up, mine is a little bit touchy about that too. Make sure that the metal-foil shielding tray isn't caught on anything, and make sure that both sides of the rear 'bucket' are clean, and that they tuck inside the lip of the front case instead of slipping outside of it. Even so, on my SE and SE/30, the case doesn't fully close until I pull it in by gently tightening the screws.

Thanks, I'll keep this in mind for when I finally close it up for good. It looks like I may need to go back in and replace the speaker first...

 

[halkyardo]

Actually, that screenshot of the manual reminds me of something - there's a switch internal to the headphone jack that is supposed to disable the internal speaker when something is plugged into it. It's not unheard of for these switches to get dirty and prevent the internal speaker from working. Might be worth shooting some contact cleaner into the headphone jack and then plugging and unplugging it a few times to see if that helps.

 

[JC8080]

Now it's time to put your soldering skills to the test and build one of Bolle's reproduction Performer '030 accelerators!

Congrats on getting things (mostly) working.

 

[cheesestraws]

there's a switch internal to the headphone jack that is supposed to disable the internal speaker when something is plugged into it. It's not unheard of for these switches to get dirty and prevent the internal speaker from working.

yeah, look at this - you can test the switch with a multimeter set to continuity mode. This is a frequent problem.

 

[Jase]

Actually, that screenshot of the manual reminds me of something - there's a switch internal to the headphone jack that is supposed to disable the internal speaker when something is plugged into it. It's not unheard of for these switches to get dirty and prevent the internal speaker from working. Might be worth shooting some contact cleaner into the headphone jack and then plugging and unplugging it a few times to see if that helps.

yeah, look at this - you can test the switch with a multimeter set to continuity mode. This is a frequent problem.

I'll do both and also test the speaker terminal on the logic board.

Now it's time to put your soldering skills to the test and build one of Bolle's reproduction Performer '030 accelerators!

Would that be this?

Congrats on getting things (mostly) working.

Thanks. Its been fun working on the SE and seeing early versions of the Mac OS in action.

 

[JC8080]

Would that be this?

Nope, it is this.

Here is my writeup on my build.

 

[Jase]

Would I be correct in assuming this is why the audio only plays on one side with my headphones?

I did some further research on this and as per the description in the SE manual, the audio out jack is "tip and sleeve" which means a mono signal is produced that only plays on one channel when used with stereo equipment. This means that the logic board isn't faulty and that I'll have to use a mono to stereo adapter to obtain audio on both channels with headphones etc. It's baffling that Apple didn't just double the signal with a "tip, ring and sleeve" (TRS) jack instead. The cost differential between the two would've been minimal.

Hopefully this info will be helpful to others who find themselves in a similar situation.

Nope, it is this.

Here is my writeup on my build.

Ah ha! This is very interesting. Good job btw!

I already have a hot-air station but not a GAL programmer and I'm proficient with through-hole soldering but not SMD work. I'd have to practice on scrap stuff first. It's certainly something to consider...

 

[tomtomcomputing27]

Hey all! This is my first post and it features my first 68k Mac.

I picked it up for £33 which isn't bad at all given that compact Macs usually sell for a lot more in the UK.

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I don't have a keyboard, mouse or software but it powers up and requests a disk:

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I don't know how much memory it has because I'm unable to check this in the OS - but I did try to have a brief look on the logic board but couldn't spot where the SIMMS are located. I'll probably have to remove it from the casing to confirm what the RAM spec is. Though I'd be surprised if it hadn't been upgraded as the bottom pair of screws are missing, which suggests that someone had gone inside to work on it at some stage...

If this involved an Intel or PPC Mac I'd be right at home but I don't have as much experience with the 68k range and so I could do with some pointers to get going. Obviously I need to sort out a keyboard, a mouse and software but what you recommend that I look for in terms of the operating system version and to load software onto it? I do have a Dell laptop with Windows and an internal floppy drive that I could use to write disks if needs be for the meanwhile but I'd prefer to explore better options like an SD/USB interface etc.

Please, share your advice and recommendations.

Welcome to the SE club

I have 2 of them a 800k one that works but the analog board might be bad but i'm not sure about that

And a nice SE SuperDrive that works well

 

[Jase]

Welcome to the SE club

Thanks.

It's a pretty neat machine. If I'd had one of these during the 80s I think that I would've been quite happy with it. Although the lack of a colour display would've been a downside. At some point I could investigate restoring the floppy drives to working order but that would largely be as a renovation project because I'm highly unlikely to use/need them.

 

[LaPorta]

Thanks.

It's a pretty neat machine. If I'd had one of these during the 80s I think that I would've been quite happy with it. Although the lack of a colour display would've been a downside. At some point I could investigate restoring the floppy drives to working order but that would largely be as a renovation project because I'm highly unlikely to use/need them.

If you ever decide to get rid of the 800ks, send me a message. I'll gladly take them.

 

[Jase]

If you ever decide to get rid of the 800ks, send me a message. I'll gladly take them.

Alright. If I make that decision we'll talk.