My first 68k Mac - Macintosh SE 2x 800k

[Jase]

Hey all! This is my first post and it features my first 68k Mac.

I picked it up for £33 which isn't bad at all given that compact Macs usually sell for a lot more in the UK.





I don't have a keyboard, mouse or software but it powers up and requests a disk:



I don't know how much memory it has because I'm unable to check this in the OS - but I did try to have a brief look on the logic board but couldn't spot where the SIMMS are located. I'll probably have to remove it from the casing to confirm what the RAM spec is. Though I'd be surprised if it hadn't been upgraded as the bottom pair of screws are missing, which suggests that someone had gone inside to work on it at some stage...

If this involved an Intel or PPC Mac I'd be right at home but I don't have as much experience with the 68k range and so I could do with some pointers to get going. Obviously I need to sort out a keyboard, a mouse and software but what you recommend that I look for in terms of the operating system version and to load software onto it? I do have a Dell laptop with Windows and an internal floppy drive that I could use to write disks if needs be for the meanwhile but I'd prefer to explore better options like an SD/USB interface etc.

Please, share your advice and recommendations.

 

[JC8080]

A SCSI emulator such as Blue SCSI is a good option, as is a Floppy Emu floppy emulator. The Floppy Emu is more expensive, but it is great to have around if you are working with early Macs. Either of those will let you boot the machine.

System 6.0.8 is the most common OS version people run. You can run System 7, but it is painfully slow on a 68000 machine.

That looks like a very nice find, especially for the price. The keyboard and mouse aren't cheap, but not crazy expensive like the earlier machines. You should be able to find some reasonably priced on eBay.

 

[Fred1212]

Congrats beware the Mac bug has bitten!

 

[joshc]

Welcome to the forum.

That’s a good price for an SE. The maximum RAM it could have is 4MB unless it has an accelerator board but that’s unlikely, though not impossible.

In terms of OS, System 6 is best for these. In terms of software, look at Macintosh Garden.

In terms of a hard drive replacement, a ZuluSCSI is a worthwhile option with better support and hardware design than the BlueSCSI.

It is worth removing the logicboard battery if you haven’t already. They are often soldered on these, but can be clipped off at the leads for easy removal.

 

[bibilit]

Yes, good price i agree, The twin drive is scarce nowadays, most have been modified in some way or another. if both drives are working properly, you have got a nice unit.

 

[bibilit]

the keyboard is not really required, but you won't do anything without a mouse. probably easy to source. I have got several, but i am not in the same side of the Channel.

 

[Snial]

A SCSI emulator such as Blue SCSI is a good option, as is a Floppy Emu floppy emulator. The Floppy Emu is more expensive, but it is great to have around if you are working with early Macs. Either of those will let you boot the machine.

System 6.0.8 is the most common OS version people run. You can run System 7, but it is painfully slow on a 68000 machine.

I don't find System 7 painfully slow on an 8MHz 68000: I normally run 7.0 on my Mac Plus (and hope to run it on my SE when I finally resolder the flyback), and it's a bit sluggish, but OK.

 

[Jase]

Thanks so much for the warm welcome and informative replies!

The Floppy Emu looks great but is rather expensive so I opted for the ZuluSCSI. This isn't my first Mac - I've got several Intel and PPC machines but I've never owned a 68k one before. System 6 it will be and I've used the Mac Garden in the past to download stuff so that won't be an issue. Would I be correct in assuming that I can download the images/software using an Intel Mac and then copy them over to an SD card which will then be used with the ZuluSCSI?

I'm confident with through-hole soldering and can snip the PRAM battery, desolder the legs and install a replacement. I can also fit a battery holder if you have a recommendation as to a suitable one. The insides are pretty dusty and cobwebbed but I can't see any leakage on the logic board - will it have to be fully removed from the casing to access the battery?

Thanks again for all the replies.

 

[Phipli]

Would I be correct in assuming that I can download the images/software using an Intel Mac and then copy them over to an SD card which will then be used with the ZuluSCSI?

They have to be correctly formatted, but the short answer is yes.

will it have to be fully removed from the casing to access the battery?

Once you unplug the cables, including the two floppy drives, a scsi cable if one was added, and most importantly, the big power molex in the middle of the board (rock it from side to side and don't pull hard, because the neck of the CRT is right above it and super delicate), it slides out. Once it has slid about an inch, there are crenellations on one side (or possibly both on later boards) that let it fold out but at that point, you need to reach in and unplug the sound cable.

There are PDF guides from apple called "Service Source" for all old macs that can be found on Google, or do a search on youtube and you'll find people telling you how to take the logic board out.

Take care around the vertical analogue board and the neck board on the CRT. High Voltages that can hang around after being powered off! I am happy removing the logic board straight after powering off, but I never work near the CRT or analogue board without leaving it a day, or manually discharging things.

Oh, also...

Welcome to the forum!! A lot of us are Brits, so you'll have plenty of timezone / local support. Also, everyone knows the SE is the best compact, so, excellent choice <ducks things likely to be thrown by the SE/30 and ColourClassic fans>

 

[finkmac]

Would I be correct in assuming that I can download the images/software using an Intel Mac and then copy them over to an SD card which will then be used with the ZuluSCSI?

Sort of. The Zulu maps disk images to SCSI IDs, which then appear like SCSI disks to the SE. Floppy images won't work, you'll have to prep install through an emulator.

I'm confident with through-hole soldering and can snip the PRAM battery, desolder the legs and install a replacement. I can also fit a battery holder if you have a recommendation as to a suitable one. The insides are pretty dusty and cobwebbed but I can't see any leakage on the logic board - will it have to be fully removed from the casing to access the battery?

The battery is buried pretty far inside, you have to completely remove the logic board to get access to that. Be very careful with the CRT tube, the neck is very fragile, and the logic board power/video connector is generally very tight. It's very easy to pull too hard and smack the neck board.

Also, I'd recommend snipping the battery off but leaving some leg sticking out, then soldering one of these to the legs. The holder solder tabs have convenient holes that will slide onto the old battery legs.

 

[s_pupp]

If you don’t mind an anachronistic keyboard/mouse, go for an AppleDesign ADB keyboard and a teardrop Apple mouse. They tend to be fairly cheap and function well, despite coming well after the SE was discontinued.

 

[Jase]

They have to be correctly formatted, but the short answer is yes.

Gotcha.

Once you unplug the cables, including the two floppy drives, a scsi cable if one was added, and most importantly, the big power molex in the middle of the board (rock it from side to side and don't pull hard, because the neck of the CRT is right above it and super delicate), it slides out. Once it has slid about an inch, there are crenellations on one side (or possibly both on later boards) that let it fold out but at that point, you need to reach in and unplug the sound cable.

There are PDF guides from apple called "Service Source" for all old macs that can be found on Google, or do a search on youtube and you'll find people telling you how to take the logic board out.

Understood. I found this one, which was really helpful:

I'll also seek out the Service Source PDF because it always pays to have a service manual.

Take care around the vertical analogue board and the neck board on the CRT. High Voltages that can hang around after being powered off! I am happy removing the logic board straight after powering off, but I never work near the CRT or analogue board without leaving it a day, or manually discharging things.

Noted. Its been switched off for a few days now so I should be ok. I'll post an update once I've made some headway with removing the battery and checking how much RAM has been installed.

Oh, also...


Welcome to the forum!! A lot of us are Brits, so you'll have plenty of timezone / local support. Also, everyone knows the SE is the best compact, so, excellent choice <ducks things likely to be thrown by the SE/30 and ColourClassic fans>

Cheers, matey! I think that I'm going to enjoy being part of this scene.

Sort of. The Zulu maps disk images to SCSI IDs, which then appear like SCSI disks to the SE. Floppy images won't work, you'll have to prep install through an emulator.

Ok, I'll keep this in mind.

Also, I'd recommend snipping the battery off but leaving some leg sticking out, then soldering one of these to the legs. The holder solder tabs have convenient holes that will slide onto the old battery legs.

Thanks but I think that this will work out better. If I remove the legs and solder it straight onto the board I can then use a ½ AA battery from my stockpile.

If you don’t mind an anachronistic keyboard/mouse, go for an AppleDesign ADB keyboard and a teardrop Apple mouse. They tend to be fairly cheap and function well, despite coming well after the SE was discontinued.

Unfortunately they tend to be cheap in North America but they're very costly over here in Europe - especially the keyboards. This adapter would cost the same price as the cheapest ADB mouse and keyboard combined and offer greater flexibility.

Thanks once again everyone.

 

[Phipli]

Unfortunately they tend to be cheap in North America but they're very costly over here in Europe - especially the keyboards. This adapter would cost the same price as the cheapest ADB mouse and keyboard combined and offer greater flexibility.

Sensible - there never hasn't been an ADB Keyboard + Mouse in my house so I wouldn't have even thought of that. Let us know how it goes, if possible, it would be good if you made a post / review about it in its own thread once you've experimented with it so people searching can find it as a solution to needing a keyboard mouse. Would be super useful to point people to.

 

[cheesestraws]

A mostly working 33 quid SE isn't to be sneezed at. Good catch!

 

[Jase]

Sensible - there never hasn't been an ADB Keyboard + Mouse in my house so I wouldn't have even thought of that. Let us know how it goes, if possible, it would be good if you made a post / review about it in its own thread once you've experimented with it so people searching can find it as a solution to needing a keyboard mouse. Would be super useful to point people to.

You've got a deal! I've purchased it and I'll be only too happy to do that to help the community. There's also the Wombat and the QuokkADB but I calculated that when you factor in the cost of international shipping to the UK and possible import/tax duty, they're not that much cheaper than the USB4VC and it offers so much more in terms of functionality. For example, I can use a USB mouse, one of my A1048 keyboards and even a gamepad.

A mostly working 33 quid SE isn't to be sneezed at. Good catch!

Cheers.

 

[Jase]

Here's the logic board!

Unfortunately, despite my best efforts, I ended up knocking the CRT neck very lightly whilst removing the Molex connector. Fingers crossed that it's ok... Beyond the presence of dust, the board appears be pretty pristine. There's no sign of battery leakage or general liquid damage. All four SIMMS slots are occupied and if my research is correct, going on the RAM chip info it would appear that 4Meg is present.



Now for the PRAM battery...



"Made in West Germany" and still intact all these decades on. The battery holder is on its way so I'll sort that in one go and also give the board a good clean with IPA.

 

[Daniël]

It's funny, in PCs and Amigas, finding a Varta battery is something to be dreaded, because their NiCd cells generally leak and cause tremendous damage to the PCB. But in Macs of this era, it's generally a relief to find a Varta battery, because their lithium cells are the opposite; Not only do these generally not leak, they sometimes still hold a solid 3V charge.

 

[Phipli]

Unfortunately, despite my best efforts, I ended up knocking the CRT neck very lightly whilst removing the Molex connector.

If you didn't hear a hiss of air you're probably OK.

Not only do these generally not leak, they sometimes still hold a solid 3V charge.

Sort of, I'd say they leak less frequently, rather than generally don't leak. Mine was still at 2.9V after 20 years I placed it with a modern axial lead varta on the basis that the original lasted so long, perhaps I should use as similar part as possible.

All four SIMMS slots are occupied and if my research is correct, going on the RAM chip info it would appear that 4Meg is present.

Roughly eyeballing it without being able to see the labels, I'm going to call that 2.5MB... do you have a closer photo of the chips on the SIMMs? Don't remove them. Best not to disturb them unless you need to.

 

[Jase]

If you didn't hear a hiss of air you're probably OK.

I didn't!

Sort of, I'd say they leak less frequently, rather than generally don't leak. Mine was still at 2.9V after 20 years

Built to last! It's stunning to discover that the SE was rated to remain in full-time operation for up to 15 years before the power supply would even need replacing. Could you imagine present-day Apple (or any other computer company for that matter) touting its products with that level of durability and longevity?

I placed it with a modern axial lead varta on the basis that the original lasted so long, perhaps I should use as similar part as possible.

I have to ask, how has it fared?

Roughly eyeballing it without being able to see the labels, I'm going to call that 2.5MB... do you have a closer photo of the chips on the SIMMs? Don't remove them. Best not to disturb them unless you need to.

I do indeed and rotated for readability.



On closer inspection, looks like you're right! The other two SIMMS banks have an identical configuration so that would be 2.5 meg. More shopping is in order... It's a good thing that I removed the logic board to check it over.

 

[Phipli]

I have to ask, how has it fared?

Ask me again in about 2049. I realise I should have said 30 years but said 20 by accident. It's only been in there about 5 years

On closer inspection, looks like you're right! The other two SIMMS banks have an identical configuration so that would be 2.5 meg. More shopping is in order... It's a good thing that I removed the logic board to check it over.

Yeah, that's 2.5MB total

Not worth having less than 4MB, so getting some makes sense. It's sort of mandatory for running System 7.0.1 or 7.1, and you'll want to do that sometimes for software compatibility. For now, with 2.5MB, I recommend sticking to System 6.0.8.