Mac Plus "Sad Mac" problem

[PowerPCFan]

I can get a Mac Plus, Keyboard, Mouse, and a Jasmine DirectDrive 20 for $80, but the Mac Plus doesn't boot according to the seller.

Should I buy it, and is the problem easy to fix?

This is what the seller said about the Mac:

Here’s what I know about it.
When I originally turned it on, it displayed the sad Mac icon (Mac icon with X eyes) with the error code 0143B8. Couldn’t find that code issue. Now when it powers up (with system disk) it no longer displays that code, but has a blank, fluttering, diagonal line screen (as you can see in the photo). Don’t know how big a project it would be to get it running, but I have way too many other projects, and I’m not too savvy with fixing computers.

I heard that errors beginning in 01 are ROM errors. could that be a corrupted ROM or leaky electrolytic capacitors? (I can't solder...) I don't know much about classic Macs but that reminds me of the checkerboard pattern and I know that fluttering diagonal lines across your Mac's screen doesn't sound good...

Pictures are below.

Let me know what you guys think!

Also, if it is probably a capacitor issue, is there someone I can send it to for repairs?

Edit: looks like this person is the seller, just found a forum post https://www.ifixit.com/Answers/View/815426/Sad+face+mac+error+0143B8+on+power+up

 

[dochilli]

Error 01 means a ROM error. The ROMs of pluses can be defect. You can burn new ROMs with an eprom burner or you can buy them on ebay. There are a lot of people in this forum that can burn new ROMs.
Leaking caps can cause defect chips but you have to open the case to have a look inside.
Did the seller check the voltages at the floppy port (5V & 12V)?
I think that this is a problem that can be repaired.

 

[bibilit]

to be honest, the price is cheap enough to don’t buy it.
The Plus is quite reliable, so probably not a big deal to repair.

 

[PowerPCFan]

Error 01 means a ROM error. The ROMs of pluses can be defect. You can burn new ROMs with an eprom burner or you can buy them on ebay. There are a lot of people in this forum that can burn new ROMs.
Leaking caps can cause defect chips but you have to open the case to have a look inside.
Did the seller check the voltages at the floppy port (5V & 12V)?

What people here know how to burn new ROMs? The seller didn't check the voltages but would low voltages indicate a bad PSU that needs to be recapped or replaced?

I think that this is a problem that can be repaired.

So it's worth it?

 

[PowerPCFan]

to be honest, the price is cheap enough to don’t buy it.
The Plus is quite reliable, so probably not a big deal to repair.

I feel like you're contradicting yourself here - are you saying I should buy it or not buy it?

 

[PowerPCFan]

Also, what's with the lines pattern? Could that indicate a bad ROM getting past POST and being unable to function properly and boot? Or something else?

 

[cheesestraws]

That seems a reasonable price to me - Pluses are very fixable, and if you're willing to take it on as a project, sounds reasonable.

If it is just the ROM, that's relatively easy.

 

[PowerPCFan]

That seems a reasonable price to me - Pluses are very fixable, and if you're willing to take it on as a project, sounds reasonable.

If it is just the ROM, that's relatively easy.

Do you think that that's the main problem?

 

[Phipli]

If it is the ROM, it wont be only the ROM, the line pattern means the tube is been sent too higher voltage I believe. If you're lucky, it is just someone has been messing with the controls, but it could mean some work on the analogue board is needed. This isn't too bad for a first mac project but it is best to practice your soldering on something cheaper first. A free VCR from a family member is a good bet - practice removing and replacing parts.

I heard that errors beginning in 01 are ROM errors. could that be a corrupted ROM or leaky electrolytic capacitors? (I can't solder...) I don't know much about classic Macs but that reminds me of the checkerboard pattern and I know that fluttering diagonal lines across your Mac's screen doesn't sound good...

Before buying / making replacement ROMs, first you want to remove, clean and reseat them. It might be just a dirty contact. Or not the ROM at all. I thought if the ROM was completely dead you got a checkerboard, but symptoms vary so perhaps it is doing something different.

The leaky electrolytic capacitors you're probably thinking of are the surface mount ones on the later macs like the SE/30. The Plus wasn't fitted with these. While the capacitors can fail, and sometimes go bad on the analogue board... its usually less dramatic. Lets call it "it stopped working" on the Plus, worst case, instead of the "yikes! it has etched the traces off the board and damaged chips" you get from surface mount capacitors on the SE/30 logic board.

It is time to learn to solder. If you don't want to, you'll need to find / pay someone else to do it for you which makes it more of a problem.

The machine looks pretty good and is worth the money, but you need to be willing to get stuck in. Even a machine like this which is easier to repair isn't maintenance free. As others have said, buying a 35 year old Mac is like buying an un-restored classic car - you need to do work on it, some up front, other things need repairing when they fail.

Things you'll likely need to deal with...
* You'll need to get one of the weird screwdrivers needed to open the case. Two of the 5 screws are buried very deep in the top handle, so you need a long screwdriver. The end is a... Torx bit T15. Double check that, but that's what I think it is.
* Adjust trim pots carefully with a special plastic tool on the analogue board. Care needed because there are big capacitors and mains voltage.
* Do some soldering to repair whatever is wrong.
* Overhaul the floppy drive - this is fiddly mechanical work, not the worst, but just warning you.
* Sometimes the battery terminals have been damaged by a leaking battery in the battery compartment.

 

[Phipli]

Do you think that that's the main problem?

We can't tell you that the problem is anything in particular for certain. All we can say is Pluses are usually repairable but you will need to get your hands dirty.

 

[bibilit]

Sorry… i will buy it myself at this price.

The mouse and keyboard alone are worth the asked price.

 

[cheesestraws]

Do you think that that's the main problem?

I don't know, I'm just going from the sad mac on ifixit. But if it's not doing that any more, who knows.

I'm going to disagree very slightly with @Phipli here; I think a Plus is a very good first real repair project, because there's enough stakes to keep it interesting, but the computers are common enough that it's only annoying if you muck it up. The main thing is that you don't want to be working in the power supply because that can be dangerous - but that looks like, at a guess, it's roughly working or you wouldn't get the screen lighting up like that.

But I do absolutely agree with @Phipli that you will need to emotionally prepare to get right in there and learn as you go, and it might be a long project. This could be anything from 'clean the legs of the ROMs and put them back in' to 'widespread water damage' or anything in between, and you won't know until you get it.

That said, you could easily pay that much just for the keyboard and mouse, as @bibilit just said, so even if it all goes wrong, you'll probably be able to get most of your money back by selling the other bits!

 

[Phipli]

I'm going to disagree very slightly with @Phipli here; I think a Plus is a very good first real repair project, because there's enough stakes to keep it interesting, but the computers are common enough that it's only annoying if you muck it up.

You're misreading me there Classic British double negative, sorry, I know it is a bad habit.

I meant "It is a good first Mac", but wrote it in a confusing way.

 

[PowerPCFan]

Thanks so much for all the feedback - I'll definitely buy this, even if I can't get it working it sounds like it's worth it with the keyboard, mouse, startup disk, and external drive.

 

[cheesestraws]

Alright I'll definitely buy this, even if I can't get it working it sounds like it's worth it with the keyboard, mouse, startup disk, and external drive.

It is worth a try if you treat it as a learning project

 

[PowerPCFan]

Things you'll likely need to deal with...
* You'll need to get one of the weird screwdrivers needed to open the case. Two of the 5 screws are buried very deep in the top handle, so you need a long screwdriver. The end is a... Torx bit T15. Double check that, but that's what I think it is.

Which Mac cracker is better? (Both from Action Retro)

Amazon.com

Amazon.com

* Adjust trim pots carefully with a special plastic tool on the analogue board. Care needed because there are big capacitors and mains voltage.
* Overhaul the floppy drive - this is fiddly mechanical work, not the worst, but just warning you.

What plastic tool? Are there any guides for the floppy drive repairs?

 

[cheesestraws]

Which Mac cracker is better? (Both from Action Retro)

If the screws are stiff the T-shaped handle might help: I've never had any that are seriously stuck, though.

 

[Phipli]

What plastic tool? Are there any guides for the floppy drive repairs?

The plastic tool is a special type of screwdriver for trimpots. I don't live in the US, so can't make recommendations. You could carve something out of a chopstick to be honest. Not sure if that is bad advice.

There are... but what I'd say is they tend to be too... complete. They completely strip down the drives, when most of the time, it isn't needed. There is a specific step that I don't like to go past because it risks damaging a part that is hard to replace. I've not had any issues on the 6 or so drives of this type I've done.

There is a video, but...

I don't remove these (never found the need, plus they might go "ping" and never be seen again, or bend or break. :



Also do not lift the head more than the minimum you need to, to get a cotton bud with IPA on it in there. Some people ruin drives by lifting the top head right up (the thing with blue text on it in the photo) and over strain the mechanism.

 

[cheesestraws]

You could carve something out of a chopstick to be honest. Not sure if that is bad advice.

I often end up using a whittled-down chopstick.

 

[PowerPCFan]

Does anyone know if the Mac LC III floppy drive is the same 800k drive as the one in the Plus? Or is it a 1.44mb or something? I don't know much about floppies. It looks like a very healthy drive so I was wondering if I could swap it once I have the Plus.