Mac Mini G4, mSATA-to-IDE adapters and Master/Slave

[Snial]

Okay, perhaps even “weirder Plus”… the half-sized card mSata adapter (typically comes with a white case) will not run in a G4 Mac mini unless the little voltage selector is set to 5v. The “full-size” mSata adapter does not offer that option - but still functions fine.

All pictured in #9 post above.

Won’t even delve into the MCA004 and the AS331 bridge adapters (also pictured #9 above) that are nearly completely identical - but the MCA004 often fails to boot while the AS331 boots the mini without fail. (Of course the AS331’s can no longer be sourced.)

OK, so it's an intriguing problem. Oh, right I see I haven't given my location, but it's in the UK, so that limits the support, but it's OK, I / we / the group will learn something. I have a version of Tiger that had been running on that mini G4. I guess, regardless of the formatting, why would it show up under OF when it's powered just with USB and not with the extra 5V input, especially as I can see from the tracks that they're the same?

I have some options. An obvious one is that I could use my second mSATA and IDE adapter directly on the mini G4. I first used the drive with the macBook C2D via the USB +5V and when it didn't work I took the 5V out. I can also check the voltages on the mini G4 ATA riser.

I'll remember what you said about HFS+ Journaled.

 

[Snial]

OK, so it's an intriguing problem. Oh, right I see I haven't given my location, but it's in the UK, so that limits the support, but it's OK, I / we / the group will learn something. I have a version of Tiger that had been running on that mini G4. I guess, regardless of the formatting, why would it show up under OF when it's powered just with USB and not with the extra 5V input, especially as I can see from the tracks that they're the same?

I have some options. An obvious one is that I could use my second mSATA and IDE adapter directly on the mini G4. I first used the drive with the macBook C2D via the USB +5V and when it didn't work I took the 5V out. I can also check the voltages on the mini G4 ATA riser.

I'll remember what you said about HFS+ Journaled.

Hi @MBongo OK, so I checked the voltages on the riser, they're 5.03V for +5V Motor and 5.00V for +5V Logic on my cheap digital multimeter. I then plugged my second mSATA + ATA adapter into the mini G4 and it was seen as a disk (even before any formatting) in Open Firmware. I managed to boot the mini G4 via my macBook C2D containing the Leopard installation DVD in target disk mode. When booted it didn't give me an option to install on any disk initially, but then I used disk utility to partition the drive (into a 100GB + 20GB partition). Then Leopard gave me an option to install on either partition, so I chose the 100GB partition (which is the first one). It's currently installing.

From memory, it spends a lot of time decompressing the DVD contents and not so much writing data, but I guess the mSATA is a bit faster than an old 5400 rpm drive so perhaps it'll be not too slow at installing. I'll let you know how it goes when it's done.

In any case, this is real progress!

 

[Snial]

Hi @MBongo OK, so I checked the voltages on the riser, they're 5.03V for +5V Motor and 5.00V for +5V Logic on my cheap digital multimeter. I then plugged my second mSATA + ATA adapter into the mini G4 and it was seen as a disk (even before any formatting) in Open Firmware. I managed to boot the mini G4 via my macBook C2D containing the Leopard installation DVD in target disk mode. When booted it didn't give me an option to install on any disk initially, but then I used disk utility to partition the drive (into a 100GB + 20GB partition). Then Leopard gave me an option to install on either partition, so I chose the 100GB partition (which is the first one). It's currently installing.

From memory, it spends a lot of time decompressing the DVD contents and not so much writing data, but I guess the mSATA is a bit faster than an old 5400 rpm drive so perhaps it'll be not too slow at installing. I'll let you know how it goes when it's done.

In any case, this is real progress!

@MBongo Success! It now boots from the new mSATA with the second ATA adapter (in naked mode). :-D Thanks for your help!



I re-booted after completing the basic setting up just to prove it again and it did! Wow, really happy!

 

[MBongo]

Big Congrats!!!

And yes, the mSATA is a “little bit faster” than the conventional drives.

From comparison testing that I’m currently working on that provides a one-number performance rating based upon QuickBench 2.0 results. Check the Seagate rating in lower right corner.



AND would you provide a complete pic of the 1st ATA adapter (the NFHK?)… that did not work? Please.

 

[MBongo]

Ooops. Forgot to mention that the above results (other than the MDD and Seagate) are via a 1.42 GHz G4 Mac mini.

 

[Snial]

Ooops. Forgot to mention that the above results (other than the MDD and Seagate) are via a 1.42 GHz G4 Mac mini.

Interesting, mine's 1.33GHz, so probably not too far from that. Here's the images (good, then bad):




Is there any difference? They are both JM20330 based. The good one is mounted in the Mac mini of course.

 

[Snial]

@MBongo, you wanted a couple of pictures of the two units I have, I posted them in the previous comment, does it help? Last evening I put the working one in its enclosure after crudely cutting out the centre to reduce temperatures. I say this, because at first when I saw your comment listing the temperatures I was shocked at how hot they seemed to run. Then I realised they were all in ºF and so 32ºC (JM20330, regulator), 32ºC - 33ºC (SSD module), 33ºC (metal thing) all sound OK. The track running at 37ºC is obviously the worst, but I guess not too bad. Still, all I needed the case for was to anchor it, so it was OK IMHO to butcher it.

 

[MBongo]

Thanks @Snial. “Mother is the necessity of invention”. Or that’s backwards?

I like your case “vent” approach and my OCD would likely have had me and my dremel tool making very clean cuts nearly all the way to each surrounding top side… if I were concerned about the thing flopping around inside. But maybe I throw caution to the wind knowing that minis here are never jostled around all that much and the pins do keep them well-affixed. Mine aren’t screw-mounted. Commando!

The only thing that I noticed from your previous post (and this may be nothing at all) is the different voltage regulators. Both appear to be manufactured by same supplier… but different ID descriptor numbers.

And this is similar to the voltage regulator suspicions that I’ve had about two, nearly identical SSD bridge adapters. (As I now veer off-topic. Mea culpa.) One boots continuously without fail while the other one must be coaxed to boot, usually by booting from an installer disk first, to then choose that cold un-bootable one to then reboot from. (As if it needs to be warmed-up.) I’ve been informed that their spec sheets are the same, even though made by different mfgs. But why was one dependable and the other one, not?



Then I was told that mine were just old and that the “newer ones” (same MCA004 V1.3 ID) always boot just fine. Blah! Anyone here have a “newer” MCA004 V1.3 adapter bridge working well in a G4 mini?

I can understand getting one “bad one” from a given production run, but two of them? Nope.

Now have new voltage regulators (from AMS, like the one that does boot) and this winter I intend to replace them on the no boot 44-pin adapter bridges. I’m just stubborn enough, or “once bitten, twice shy” enough - that I won’t purchase a supposed “newer” model of the same adapter.

But I will test mSata adapters in the G4 Mac mini - as I now have done because I can no longer source the AS331 V1.5 adapters that worked so flawlessly in the G4 Mac minis.

Now I must go and be quiet before reprimanded for being off-topic and verbose.

 

[herd]

The mSata SSDs run on 3.3v, which these adapters supply with that regulator. Some SSDs use a lot of current when accessing/writing, so if you're curious you could put a volt meter on there and see if the 3.3v drops when booting/accessing. It might be that the regulator can't keep up with the demand.

 

[Snial]

The mSata SSDs run on 3.3v, which these adapters supply with that regulator. Some SSDs use a lot of current when accessing/writing, so if you're curious you could put a volt meter on there and see if the 3.3v drops when booting/accessing. It might be that the regulator can't keep up with the demand.

Thanks, that makes sense in itself, but it doesn't explain why, on the semi-working mSATA, the USB to ATA adapter I had (see previous page) works when I just plug in the USB cable (=> 4.89V on the +5V motor pin), but not if I also plug in the power jack (fed from a USB power adapter, and => 5.11V on the +5V motor pin). i.e. the lower power option works, the higher power option doesn't.

See my comment (and images) here:

#13

 

[Snial]

Thanks @Snial. “Mother is the necessity of invention”. Or that’s backwards? <snip>I like your case “vent” approach <snip> dremel tool <snip> Mine aren’t screw-mounted. Commando!

Oooh, risqué!

The only thing that I noticed from your previous post (and this may be nothing at all) is the different voltage regulators. Both appear to be manufactured by same supplier… but different ID descriptor numbers.

Wow, of course, I didn't notice that at all!
Good:

Bad:

Now have new voltage regulators (from AMS, like the one that does boot) and this winter I intend to replace them on the no boot 44-pin adapter bridges.

OK, I could try something similar.

But I will test mSata adapters in the G4 Mac mini - as I now have done because I can no longer source the AS331 V1.5 adapters that worked so flawlessly in the G4 Mac minis.

Now I must go and be quiet before reprimanded for being off-topic and verbose.

Not at all, all very informative! Thanks @MBongo !