Latest Episode of Failure

[Mk.558]

So now that the SE/30 has been fitted with a replacement motherboard, it neither boots from a HDD (which in a former life booted, unless it has an OS which isn't supported -- I have no idea what's on it) or FDD. Upon insertion, the disk scans for a second, then promptly ejects.

It's a proper boot floppy, from 7.5NAD to a 7 boot disk to some F4.2/S6.0 disk. Nothing.

Cause? Shot FDD? PRAM battery is brand new.

 

[phreakout]

It could be that the System folder wasn't properly "blessed" when it was created. Here's how you "bless" the System folder:

Step 1.) Insert the floppy containing the System folder or Disk Tools floppy on another Mac already running System 7.x.x.

Step 2.) Open up the floppy's disk (Cmd + O) and locate the "System Folder".

Step 3.) Open and then close the "System Folder". (Cmd + O, then Cmd + W)

Step 4.) Eject the floppy. (Cmd + Y, or click and drag the floppy disk icon to the Trash.)

Congratulations! You have now properly "blessed" the System Folder. The disk should now be able to boot up. If that doesn't work, it could be either the floppy drive has problems or the disk may need to be recreated (data corruption on the disk image or of such). Oh, and make sure you are using at minimum version 4.2 of the Disk Copy application when creating the boot floppies. If you're using System 7.x.x on another Mac, you can use Disk Copy version 6.x.x as well. (If you don't have either, PM me and I'll be glad to email you the Disk Copy app of your choice.)

Try it and report back with results!

73s de Phreakout. :rambo:

 

[Mk.558]

Disc 1: 7.5 Network Access disk. Blessed.

Disc 2: ibid, duplicate.

Disc 3: F4.2/S6.0 System Tools 1. Cannot bless version this old.

Disc 4: F4.2/S6.0 System Tools 2.

Disc 5: System 7 boot disk sent to me.

Result: Nothing. [x] shows up with a floppy disk.

I'm using Mac OS 9.2.2 on this iBook G3 900MHz with an Imitation SuperDISK USB FDD on brand new floppies.

ETA:

I recapped the whole main board and checked connections twice so far. I cleaned out the FDD with degreaser and scrubbed down the mechanicals, then re-assembled. All it does with the FDD exposed with the case off is it goes from the outside of the disk to the inside (or vis versa if given a second disk after), then ejects.

 

[phreakout]

I sent you a private message (PM). Check your mailbox.

73s de Phreakout. :rambo:

 

[Mk.558]

Okay.

So here's what we got.

A replacement Sony 2MB floppy drive is on loan.

• 7.5 Network Access Disk: No boot. (There are four of these disks)

• System 7.0.1 with patched HD SC Setup boot disk: Works!

• System 6.0.8 Install disk: Rejected.

• System 6.0.8 boot disk: Spotty, some disks rejected.

A replacement 1GB SCSI HDD has been sourced.

This does not work either. I have both 12v and 5v power coming in between the two outer and the two inners of the power cable going to the HDD.

PRAM battery: New and registers 3.6V

Memory: 5120KB

Suggestions?

Seeing the cute interface is nice again after a long hiatus, but is promptly spoiled by the inability of the machine to perform properly.

I'm wondering if it is cheaper to procure a replacement machine? Or maybe I have a damaged analogue board? Shot motherboard? There's little reasoning in my mind, that the motherboard must be suspect because the HDD was _known_ to work properly less than a week ago.

Could any of this be related to a bad capaciter replacement?

Maybe I should have forked out for that SE/30 from Oregon...

 

[Unknown_K]

It seems the floppy drive does work if a disk boots. Check termination on the SCSI HD.

 

[Mk.558]

Copy. I'll return on this issue just a bit later.

 

[Mk.558]

I soldered the jumper pins together for Termination Enable and Parity Disable, and patched HD SC Setup still cannot detect the drive.

I cannot get SCSIProbe to work either (but it works fine on my iBook in 9.2.2) and cannot find Lido 7.56 anywhere.

 

[CJ_Miller]

Have you tried internal and external SCSI? Also I would check the connectors on your ribbon cables, which can come apart after some time. On my SE the cable was on so tight that I barely notices it starting to separate, and squeezed it back together with some cyanoacrylate. Or indeed try another set of cables, floppy included. Also I had major SCSI headache this week due to a failing external SCSI cable.

 

[Udo.Keller]

I cannot get SCSIProbe to work either (but it works fine on my iBook in 9.2.2) and cannot find Lido 7.56 anywhere.

Lido is available here: http://www.euronet.nl/users/mvdk/diskutilities.html

Just for interest: When scanning the SCSI bus, does it detect the Macintosh SCSI controller with SCSI-ID 7?

 

[Mk.558]

No it does not.

All I get with HD SC Setup is "No SCSI devices found". I don't have a spare SCSI 50 pin connector lying around (we got rid of our SE, SE/30 when we got IIfxs, then those got disposed of once we got iMac G3 450 DV+ and a 500Mhz machine).

I highly doubt any local stores have SCSI cables.

On the other hand, does anybody know how to write .image files to an external floppy USB drive under OSX? I boot into 9.2.2 and the Make a Floppy F is greyed out even with a FD inserted and mounted.

I also tried this and sudo mounting it, and nothing works. I also tried Restoring with Disk Utility, and it fails near completion owing to a write error (-1).

 

[Udo.Keller]

Just for interest: When scanning the SCSI bus, does it detect the Macintosh SCSI controller with SCSI-ID 7?

No it does not.

Well, if Lido does not even see the Macintosh on-board SCSI controller, then we can assume there's a problem with the SCSI bus itself and not necessarily with your hard disk. You can stop trying the hard disk jumper settings and trying to initialize that disk, either internally mounted or attached externally. SCSI seems to be dead completely.

However, I think the floppy drive should not be affected by that problem.

 

[Mk.558]

I checked all capacitors and all were good.

I have a 50 pin internal SCSI cable on the way from eBay.

EDIT: I can't seem to get SCSIProbe 5.2 working, the patched HD SC Setup says it cannot detect any SCSI devices connected, and Blue Disk Manager cannot detect any SCSI devices connected either. I'm working on getting System 7 booted with a RAM disk since it makes it alot easier (the picture you see above, you can see the RAM Disk mounted) and System 7 does like the idea of FloppySwappy™ games very well indeed. (System 6 isn't too bad on that, but still...it's a lot better with a RAM Disk).

Maybe it's the connector. Sure would be a lame way to ruin a party. Even if the HDD cannot present a valid boot folder, that's still no excuse not to be detected.

Heck if I made computers like Apple, all computers would have a basic OS like the Classic in ROM. And all would be cablable of detecting illogical operations by faulty connections. (Ain't hard, just say you're getting an improper signal from port XX: how hard can it be?)

Any idea why this machine won't boot from System 7.5 Network Access Disk? (Blessed folder and all)

 

[Mk.558]

Update: I can't get RamDisk+ 2.01 or 2.32 to work with System 7.0.1. I'm not sure if SCSIProbe requires System 7, but if two applications can't detect the SCSI device, then that's likely a hardware problem.

 

[Udo.Keller]

[...] the picture you see above, you can see the RAM Disk mounted

Well, I think that picture delivers a different information. A better one, in fact. It shows that LIDO can access the SCSI bus and it shows SCSI device #7, that is the Macintosh on-board SCSI controller. The RAM Disk is not implemented as a SCSI device, IMHO.

Maybe it's the connector. Sure would be a lame way to ruin a party. Even if the HDD cannot present a valid boot folder, that's still no excuse not to be detected.

But if the SCSI cable between main board and hard disk is broken, that would be an excuse, wouldn't it?

I have a 50 pin internal SCSI cable on the way from eBay.

Certainly a good idea.

Any idea why this machine won't boot from System 7.5 Network Access Disk? (Blessed folder and all)

Since you have successfully booted w/ 6.0.8 from that floppy drive, we can assume that the drive is O.K. Have you ever booted another Macintosh w/ that 7.5 Network Access Disk? Can we assume that the 7.5 NAD is not defective? Just an idea.
The 6.0.8 floppy you have used to boot up the SE/30 is a 1.4MB diskette, isn't it?

 

[Mk.558]

But if the SCSI cable between main board and hard disk is broken, that would be an excuse, wouldn't it?

Yeah, but that'd be like when a thin piece of metal (like aluminum, about the thickness of a soda can) somehow worked itself into the oil pump gears on my '88 325is. (Yes I did shut the engine off, and confirmed no oil pressure the next day by taking off the oil filter and holding rag next to the filter input direct from the oil pump. The piece of metal had jammed the pump gears, but the engine didn't know any better and snapped the oil pump drive shaft like a toothpick) It's like... :-/ "how did that ever happen??"

Since you have successfully booted w/ 6.0.8 from that floppy drive, we can assume that the drive is O.K. Have you ever booted another Macintosh w/ that 7.5 Network Access Disk? Can we assume that the 7.5 NAD is not defective? Just an idea.
The 6.0.8 floppy you have used to boot up the SE/30 is a 1.4MB diskette, isn't it?

I do not have another classic Macintosh. I have three Macs here: SE/30, iBook G3 900MHz 32VRAM, and a Mac mini 1.66GHz Core Duo with max RAM. (Call it collecting all three breeds of processors. )

The 6.0.8 disks can be either 800K or 1.44MB, but the system you saw above is 6.0.8 loaded from the floppy onto the RAM disk. System 7.0.1 boots fine, I'm sure 7.1 would work also, but I can't figure out why a plain vanilla System Folder with System and Finder from 7.5NAD will not boot, even when blessed. The drive rejects the disk.

I should get working on seeing if I can load Ethermac drivers and connect to my iBook for easier filesharing. Floppies are not a reliable means of file transfer or backup - heck the 6.0.8 boot disk with the RAM disk application somehow unblessed itself, and thus I had a minor scare about not being able to boot with anything.

 

[Mk.558]

And the new cable is 10-97.

And nothing has changed. Although if it helps, Lido 7.56 reports that "Arbitration failed!! Check connections and terminations on all SCSI devices."

Another thing that is interesting about the replacement cable is the lack of alignment protusement. But I think I did OK.

 

[wally]

Measure the voltage on pin 25 relative to the ground shell of the SCSI DB-25 on the lower rear back center. Expect about +4.2V. If not check L10 L9 L8 D3 F3, they are on the DC path to power the SCSI controller chip UI12 and SCSI terminator power you just measured. If fuse F3 is blown, replace with 1A unit. D3, 1N4001. Open chokes may be temporarily jumpered for test purposes.

 

[Mk.558]

Voltage at pin 25 measured at +4.760 volts.

Good help there, I checked out F3 and it's got continuity. "L10 L9 L8 D3 F3, ... D3, 1N4001." that got me lost. L10 is a reference point on the board? as are L8 and L9, I couldn't find D3 (there's D2 on the top of the board by the PRAM battery, and D4 underneath, and those are transistors).

EDIT: According to Apple's KB article link Pin 26 should be Internal HDD Termination power. I assume that if voltage was detected at DB-25 then no internal test is required?