jt's Random Questions Thread

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

I've always got questions that come up randomly that I may or may not be able to easily look up. Somebody around these parts has got to have that information at their fingertips or know where to quickly find it. So:

Q1: What's the spec on the machine screws used to bolt an SE/30 expansion card up to its mounting ears? I've been using 10-24 flat head machine screws and nuts on my plexi protoboards because I keep boxes of them handy for projects in general, the leave a bit of play in the hole and rocking the countersink bit in the plexi around a bit makes down and dirty incremental positioning adjustments easy.

What's the real deal?

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

I love it when expansion cards arrive in form fitting pink bubble wrap envelopes. Is all the pink bubble wrap packing that arrives here an anti static material? Is any of it?

The silver bubble wrap envelope variety is a huge treat. [] ]'>

 

[Unknown_K]

I hate when expansion cards come in a small barely padded envelopes all the way from China.

 

[techknight]

I hate it when expansion cards are thrown in a box with nothing... 

 

[Themk]

A whole bunch of 040s speaking, time to break up the party with an 68000

Q1: What's the spec on the machine screws used to bolt an SE/30 expansion card up to its mounting ears? I've been using 10-24 flat head machine screws and nuts on my plexi protoboards because I keep boxes of them handy for projects in general, the leave a bit of play in the hole and rocking the countersink bit in the plexi around a bit makes down and dirty incremental positioning adjustments easy.

I really don't know. My SE (which houses my SE/30 board) chassis has a protrusion in the screw hole that the drilled out hole on the card slides into, so, I've never had to screw an SE/30 expansion card in.

Regarding expansion cards, back in the mid 2000s, (2007-8?) when I was a lot younger, I had my dad order me a $5 3COM PCI network card. What a nice card that was, and surprisingly still worked after the fact that it came barely wrapped in paper, with a postage affixed on top. Infact, some of the gold fingers were *exposed* in the package. How it still worked is mind boggling, but it did. This was way before I knew about proper ESD procedures, so I just popped it in and went away! I was just happy that I could surf the internet again lol.

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

Haven't found a listing for classic Mac screws, but here's one a bit too current: ifixmac-apple-screws

If anyone has screws holding a card to the ears of their SE/30 or an extra set handy, please take one by a Lowe's Home Improvement Hardware Department next time you have a chance. They've got boards for test fitting common SAE and Metric machine screws/nuts/bolts for size.thread count.

Depot's probably got the same deal, but I don't usually go there for anything but dimensional lumber I want cut on their Radial Arm Saw. A REAL hardware store is a treasure trove. Big box stores are terrible and hardware store wannabe franchises/blister pack emporiums are almost as bad. GREAT hardware stores may be what I miss most about NYC, especially now that Tekserve is gone.

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

Answer 1: This is less far less than optimal as a solution: Apple's specifications for securing SE/30 expansion cards call for the use of automotive type Snap Rivets? :



Both my chassis are the Rev.D variety, so the mounting ears are punched in the manner of holes meant to be threaded for machine screws. I'll have to check them, but I swear the original chassis had had the holes tapped for what I'd consider a proper configuration. My guess is that there's provision for a lot of play in the interface, especially so seeing that Apple switched to a less tap toleran punch pattern for the Rev.E sheet metal..

The 10-24 nuts-n-bolts solution is a real PITA, but good enough for now. Adding nylon washers and applying less torque will work just fine, more to think about.

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

Q3: Does anyone have machine screws (bolts in gauge sizes as opposed to SAE inchcremental hardware, Finagle only knows what the heck they call this crap in the metric world) threaded into an SE/30 Chassis?

Q4: Denigratiing commentary aside, what the heck DO they call the tiny variety of this crap in the metric world?

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

Q5: Do the Beige G3s require a personality card to function or will they run just fine without the (nowadays) useless things?

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

A5: Beige G3DT appears to boot up, run and shut down just fine sans personality card.

Q6: Are there any known issues with running a BG3 without the personality card?

 

[Unknown_K]

I never actually seen a terminator in that slot on any Beige G3 machines.

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

Interesting, never thought of it as any kind of PDS that might need termination. Figured it was either like the 630's A/V I/O card slot or a halfassed PCI implementation like the CSII slot in the 6360/6400. Time to hit the DevNotes, thanks! [] ]'>

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

A6: DevNote:

PERCH slot: a 182-pin microchannel connector. The PERCH slot is a superset
of the PCI specification, and does not accept standard PCI cards. The PERCH
slot on the desktop and tower enclosures supports Apple Audio, Audio/
Video, and DVD-Video and Audio/Video input/output cards. The All-in-one
enclosure does not support the DVD-Video and Audio/Video Card. This
note does not provide the electrical specification for the PERCH slot.

Not gonna find out more about this slot, Apple didn't support third party development. If It's a half-baked Superset of PCI like ComSlot II, no termination should be required and the BG3 ought to get along swimmingly without it.

Thanks, K! [] ]'>

 

[TPope]

Hey Comrade,

What's the status of the SE/30 PDS project? The last I heard there were reserved pins on the slot that complicated development. Is it still the case?

Thanks for your time.

TPope

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

Everything is on hold until an announcement is made by a buddy about his possible major breakthrough.

I've gone from Wire Wrap Prototyping parts acquisitions, to working out specs for a flexible four layer PCB prototyping board and ordering parts for that. There's a real possibility we'll moving straight on to actual prototype development, leapfrogging whatever progress I may have made to date. We shall see how it all turns out about the time the slow boat makes dock, it's muuuuuuuch too soon to leak unverified/untested info, but meanwhile it's very exciting nonetheless. Keep fingers crossed.

Thank goodness all my fumbling attempts have encouraged folks with real competence in these areas to take part. [] ]'>

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

A6: moot point, the personality card has been flopped over on its side and now fits neatly into the 2UBG3 prototype.

2UBG3 - Beige G3 2U Rackmount build - Prototyping a Homebuilt Box

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

on the subject of personality cards  .  .  .

Q7: do any of the versions have the "Phone" icon's plate punched thru and a separate cover plate installed? Looks like they may have set up the tooling in order to leave an integrated cover patch plate indented/work welded to the personality card backplane plate. Curious that.

Q8: Is there a version out there with a built-in modem or a PCB that looks like it may have been set up for one that went unimplemented?

Strange duck this PERCH Slot/PCard setup.

 

[Cory5412]

I believe there is a prototype personality card that has a USB port on it, it's not unreasonable to think Apple was looking into putting CSII on it or using a similar interface to the iMac/blue-and-white internal modem as an option for those systems.

It could be for this part, which looks like it's probably a CSII card, since it lists compatibility with the 6500 as well.

 

[Trash80toHP_Mini]

Yep! Didn't click at all before, but my Farallon CSII NIC fits perfectly, I wonder if it would work?

This is beginning to fit together, the G3AIO is listed as compatible with only the base level Whisper sound I/O Card,

edit: nope, won't work:

LEM's G3 AIO specs:

• 3 PCI slots
• 1 Personality Card slot (matches Comm Slot II, but only works with modems)

The A/V chipset undoubtedly occupies the CSII's PCI Slot ID/interrupt, hence the "welded" shut port on my A/V card's cover plate.

Anybody got a Whisper Personality Card to check status of the coverplate cutout for CSII?