Installing system 7.1.1 Pro on Color Classic?

[razo]

I downloaded SSW-7-Pro-Disk-Images from MacintoshGarden and followed the instructions for installing system 7.1.1 Pro and ran the Compatibility Checker which instructed me to remove a lot of files from the old 7.1 system folder including the 401 enabler, which I did :-/   Of course now my CC won´t restart so I can´t continue the installation, but assuming I get my backup SD card into my SCSI2SD drive so I can boot system 7.1; is there a specific way to install System 7.1.1 Pro on the CC that will work? Is it possible?

The best would be to install 7.1.1 Pro (over my 7.1) in such a way as not having to reinstall all my old applications.

The reason I want to try 7.1.1Pro is that using FTP on OS7.5.3 proved much too slow for it to work reliably.

 

[mraroid]

I just noticed something odd sticking out from under the heat sink of the CPU on the right hand side.  Is this normal?  See the enclosed photo.
Thanks
mraroid

 

[EvieSigma]

If you mean the two big chips, those are L2 cache. 1MB I believe for a 400MHz CPU.

 

[nglevin]

Getting this back on track (I think mraroid meant to post in the G3 topic!)...

System 7.1.1 Pro is 7.1.1 with AppleScript 1.0, QuickTime 1.5, and a workgroup networking solution called "PowerTalk". You can find later, better versions of the first two that work great with System 7.1; AppleScript 1.1 and QuickTime 2.5 are both awesome.

There's been a past discussion here about what's different between the various versions of System 7.1. The conclusion is mostly, not much, and the only upgrade you'll want for that would be "System Update 3.0" for System 7.1, which has been mirrored in a few places now that it's no longer on Apple.com.

I maintain that you're probably not going to do much better with networking since MacTCP and OpenTransport are the most "low level" TCP supporting subsystems on the Mac. Did System 7.1 ever ship with MacTCP? Apparently version 2 shipped with Apple's Internet Starter Kit long long ago, but I don't believe it was ever included with System 7. (EDIT: It was among the extensions packaged with System 7.5, but System 7.6 switched immediately to OpenTransport and didn't look back)

Besides all of that, the Color Classic shipped very close to the time of System 7.1. I wouldn't install any version of System 7.1 on it outside of the original Color Classic install media. Macintosh System releases were very picky about hardware until they finally dumped the system enablers around 7.6.

 

[nglevin]

And (since the question of which System 7 version is best for a Color Classic came up last year) you can find the System Enabler you need for a Color Classic and any System 7.1. If you happen to have lost the Color Classic install media.

I believe the Enablers are also mirrored in a few places.

 

[razo]

@nglevin Thanks for your good answers, as always. I suppose that the SCSI implementation in 7.1.1 Pro will be the same as in 7.1 and not possible to improve on (in this generation of OS). So upgrading to 7.1.1 Pro will probably not solve my SCSI problem and I should not attempt it.  I need a system that works bort wrt SCSI and FTP. In my experience the SCSI-implementation is better in 7.5.3 than in 7.1 w.r.t. interfacing to other, older SCSIequipment (7.1 scsi is not usable, but 7.5.3 SCSI works fine). My Color Classic had 7.1 when I got it two years ago so I have tried both 7.1 and 7.5.3. I guess then that my best bet perhaps will be to upgrade my CC logicboard to a Lc575, still keep system 7.5.3(which works wrt SCSI) and hopefully the CC will then both be faster and work better wrt FTP, than my CC does now. 

@mraroid cool down.. please.

 

[ArmorAlley]

@nglevin Thanks for your good answers, as always. I suppose that the SCSI implementation in 7.1.1 Pro will be the same as in 7.1 and not possible to improve on (in this generation of OS). So upgrading to 7.1.1 Pro will probably not solve my SCSI problem and I should not attempt it.  I need a system that works bort wrt SCSI and FTP. In my experience the SCSI-implementation is better in 7.5.3 than in 7.1 w.r.t. interfacing to other, older SCSIequipment (7.1 scsi is not usable, but 7.5.3 SCSI works fine). My Color Classic had 7.1 when I got it two years ago so I have tried both 7.1 and 7.5.3. I guess then that my best bet perhaps will be to upgrade my CC logicboard to a Lc575, still keep system 7.5.3(which works wrt SCSI) and hopefully the CC will then both be faster and work better wrt FTP, than my CC does now. 

@mraroid cool down.. please.

There is an extension in System 7.5 called "SCSI Extension 4.3" which, I assume, upgrades the SCSI implementation to v4.3. I wonder if this works under System 7.1.x?

 

[mraroid]

Apologies to all.  Yes, after not much sleep, I posted to the wrong forum thread.  I tried to delete it but could not figure out how in my almost 20 hours of no sleep stupor.  I will be more careful in the future.  Drinking that second cup of coffee now. 
 
So sorry.
 
mraroid

 

[nglevin]

ArmorAlley's recalling SCSI Manager 4.3, which was an extension that patched the Mac Toolbox ROM for earlyish 68040 Macs (a Mystic upgraded CC would count) and Power Macs. SCSI Manager 4.3 already shipped in the ROM for the AV 68040s (the Quadra 840av and 660av) and IIRC most Power Macs made after that.

High level intro from TidBITS; https://tidbits.com/1994/11/07/why-scsi-manager-4-3/

The ADC Inside Macintosh docs, you don't need this; http://mirror.informatimago.com/next/developer.apple.com/documentation/mac/Devices/Devices-119.html

MacGUI has the original SCSI Manager 4.3 SDK which has the extension in it, if you don't have a 7.5 or later installer handy with TomeViewer to fish out the files without going through the Installer.

The SDK readme claims that the extension does nothing for 68030 Macs, but that might only have been true of '030 Macs of its vintage. Wouldn't hurt to try and see if the extension makes a difference on a CC.

EDIT: @mraroid, you're fine! Just enthusiastic.

 

[Paralel]

I suggest 7.1.2 68k as the best version of 7.1.x. It is the very last version of the 7.1.x series, and It has the latest System (7.1.2) and Finder (7.1.4) that was ever available for the 68k series while allows for threading (with the correct extension) and scriptable actions (requires the installation of AppleScript), two things which you will find are needed for some programs. It also allows for some compatibility with some software that requires 7.5.x. (since Finder 7.1.4 actually overlaps with the very first version of 7.5). It is also compatible with "Appearance Manager" if you run into a program that wants that (just make sure to copy over the System 7 specific config file if you still want your system to look like System 7.1.x but have the program in question function).

Also, don't trust the compatibility checker, it doesn't exactly work correctly (as in, it told you to ditch your enabler, which, of course, prevented your system from functioning).  Your best bet is to install your target OS and if you run into any trouble, run the extensions and figure out which one is the problem yourself. Or yank all your extensions, and put them back 1 at a time, makes it easy to find any trouble right away.

Overall, you'll find 7.1.2 68k is fairly tolerant of bad extensions. I've tried plenty of bad extensions over the years, and never had any trouble excising them without any complications. I have found it is compatible with extensions that were introduced with MacOS 8.1.

Furthermore, a base installation of 7.1.2 68k with a few critical extensions will only consume ~3.0 MB of RAM, which is rather lean, for any Mac that is an SE/30 or newer. I wouldn't suggest it for anything Mac SE or older since that leaves you with less than a meg of ram to work with. I also find it to be quite speedy, compared to 7.5.x (with 7.5.3 being the most common, 7.5.5 the second most common).

You need to use 7.1.1 Pro or 7.1 as a base for 7.1.2 68k, it only allows for upgrades, you can't do a new installation of 7.1.2 68k directly. I'm honestly not sure why. It seems to be a limitation of the installer (Note to self: take installer apart and remove this limitation)

 

[just.in.time]

The reason I want to try 7.1.1Pro is that using FTP on OS7.5.3 proved much too slow for it to work reliably.

Is it having timeout errors? I’m wondering if that could be a cause of the FTP host/client software? Or potentially the wrong version of Ethernet card driver (assuming non-Apple)?

On my CC with stock logic board I find 7.5.3/7.5.5 to offer a decent balance of performance vs features. Though my board is maxed out at 10mb of RAM. I typically run Net Presentz on it to act as an FTP server so I can push files to it from my MacBook.

 

[razo]

Perhaps. I bought the ethernetcard about 8 months ago and it is looking similar to the kind of Farallon ethernetcard you can buy on ebay now for 15 USD with the driver floppy disk. I had very slow performance on the CC. It will be interesting to test it on the LC575.

It was called "Macintosh Color Classic Ethernet Card Apple LC 575 PDS Farallon New"