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Help! Looking for a LCD monitor that is MACIIci compatible

montysnake

New member
I have a old Mac IIci i'd like to liberate from my basement, if I can onky find a modern day monitor to work with it. I have long since discarded the 13" apple RGB monster (that sucker weighed a ton!) that went with that monitor.

I have a Apple8•24 card in the Mac IIci and I have tried a could of my flat panel LCD monitors(with a switchable Apple to VGA adapter) ,only to get a message "Sync rate not compatible". Any Ideas? Must be of a model that can be found here in the US. Thanks :p

 

equill

Well-known member
The IIci is of NuBus architecture. I've never heard of or seen a NuBus video card with ADC or DVI out. VGA out is uncommon enough. Without either ADC out (the USB will remain useless to you) or DVI-I, there can be no connection to an LCD display unless you are prepared and able to jump through flaming hoops by making up your own analogue to digital video signal converter to marry with a PowerBook display. PCI video cards such as the Radeon 7000, with DVI-I, VGA and S-Video are hard enough to find, let alone NuBus equivalents.

de

 

ChristTrekker

Well-known member
I'd've thought your solution workable. :( Since you say your DA15-VGA adapter is switchable, have you tried various settings? It may not work with the 640x480 setting, but might at 800x600, or something.

 

david__schmidt

Well-known member
I have a Samsung SyncMaster 940MW that I bought because it has every video connector and sync rate known to man+dog on it. I use it with my IIci without incident, but this is through the IIci's built-in video circuitry. I have an adapter that came with my NEC Multisync 3d back in the day - it converts the Apple wide 15-pin video to the compact/dense 15 pin VGA-ish video connector. I believe it's passive - there's no extra circuitry involved.

Now that I think about it, the colors do look a little washed out - but it's very workable.

 

Charlieman

Well-known member
The IIci built-in video uses sync on green which works with few monitors. Griffin and a few others produced sync adapters but they are expensive today. The IIci is best used with a Radius, Supermac or other NuBus video card which will also improve performance. Even a Toby video card would help, and if you lived in the EU I would send one for postage cost.

 

montysnake

New member
WOW! this Group is Great! Thanks for the Suggestions and keep them coming! I'm willing to try alot to get this to work again. I "retired" my IIci , 4 years ago to "Temporarily" set it out of the way, but now it's peaked my interest again. But I long since got rid of the 15" sony "Boat anchor" crt and the Apple Hi-res 13" monitor, that has long since gone to blown capacitor heaven. I tried the other resolutions besides 480x640 and the 800x600, those did not work either, but I have heard of some sync on green /RGB capable small LCDS. that would be sweet to get this up and running to be the "Server Node/head for some other old mac SE's I have, along with a couple of other old Powerbooks I own. If I find a workable solution, i'll post it here. Thanks for the ideas so far, this is a great board!

 

sylwiusz

Active member
Yes, let us know :) I'd love to hook a LCD monitor to my Quadra with Radius od Supermac card, but AFAIK all of these cards use sync on green only signal. It is not easy to find a CRT monitor working with this kind of synchronisation not to mention LCD :-/ That's why probably david__schmidt got slightly washed picture - this means too strong G signal, I've got similar results when connecting not sync-on-green aware Samsung CRT - black levels were... well... gray ;-) Most Sony's CRTs are capable of working with this kind of sync. Do really all NuBus graphics cards are capable only of syncing on green? Based on my own experience even modern Supermac and Radius work this way :-/ How about RasterOps?

 

Charlieman

Well-known member
Sync on green standard was cheap and easy. It was usually adopted for low end video cards and monitors.

Most high performance video cards for the Mac II onwards used combined sync or separate sync. I have never experienced problems using modern TFTs with an analogue input with SuperMac and Radius video cards. Possibly you are unlucky with your choice of monitors, but if the TFT is cabable of ~60Hz it should work. The Radius Precision family work for me.

 

sylwiusz

Active member
Charlieman, these are good news indeed :) I was thinking about getting a LCD monitor for my Quadra 800 - I was just afraid of problems with sync on green. I have Precisioncolor Pro 24x and Thunder II GX cards - at least one of them should work then properly with LCD :)

 

register

Well-known member
If I might suggest to make an appropriate adaptor or connecting cable, think about visiting the LAM webpage: http://lam.kilu.de/.

The page is written in German language. It seems to be maintained, still, as the page moved to a new host few months ago (thanks to Uwe Draeger !). If one knows about a similar collection of well documented mac hardware hacks in English language, please post the url.

If you want to set up a monitor for old mac use, only, it is a good idea to make a cable with the appropriate connector and hard wired sense pins, as additional adaptors tend to distort the analogue video signal slightly. It is also possible to make the mac video card ignore any sense pin settings and to choose from any resolution the video card is capable of. To make this, use some control panel like "Activate all resolutions". In case you did so, consider to make a sense pin wiring for a basic resolution of 640 x 480 at 66.7 Hz to support almost any mac w/o specific software settings.

 

Bunsen

Admin-Witchfinder-General
"Activate all resolutions"
This is a check box in the "Monitors" control panel. It says something like "Show only recommended settings for this monitor". Unchecked, it allows all possible settings on the video card. Some of these will be unusable.

Sync on green was used on some Sun CRT monitors - it may be that there are Sun LCDs out there that are compatible.

Still, your best bet is probably a Nubus video card.

 

montysnake

New member
The Saga Continues......THE MAC IICI LIVES! THANKS TO ALL FOR YOUR SUGGESTIONS!

I could not locate a Samsung 940 MW, so I tried a Sam Sung 920 NW and a Samsung 932 BW Syncmaster Monitors. The Samsung 920nw does not work, but the Samsung 932 will sync up to a Mac IICI with the internal video setting the DB15 adaptor to positions 1 4 5 6 However.. the video aint great, but it's workable and at 256 colors, so, Thank you very much, i am glad to get this 19 year old beast back up and running to xfer some legacy files off of some old disks and enjoy some old games again.... :)

I was able to return the Samsung 920 NW and get a full cash refund thanks to STAPLES liberal return policy(Thank God for brick and mortars!!!!)

Current Mac II CI config is running OS 7.5.5, 32 megs, daystar 50mhz 030 accelerator and Apple 8•24 nubus card(not used)

Hopefully, I can locate a Nubus Ethernet card and resurrect the IIci beast to be the Gateway of a "Antique" Appletalk network I have in my home with 2-SE's and 2-g3 laptops and link it to my Powerbook G4 and MacPro Tower and ImacG4 on my Ethernet router.

Thanks again. My Mac IIci is now officially LIBERATED thanks to THIS group! :)

 

register

Well-known member
"Activate all resolutions"
The "Monitors" control panel relies on the sense pins connected to the video output. In System 7 one has to open the control panel with depressed option key to permit the choice of any resolution the graphics card AND the monitor are capable of. On fixed frequency monitors nothing happens. For multsync monitors usually you will see some additional resolutions within the range of standard resolutions to choose from, like 640 x 480 at 60 Hz or 800 x 600 at 56 Hz. On a CRT monitor you would call those settings not ergonomic, what is why they are hidden. The option-enabled control panel still should do no harm to your monitor or leave you with a blank screen, however.

Opposite to the description above there is a control panel (or was it an extension?) available that permits to choose from any resolution/frequency the graphics card is capable of, no matter what monitor is identified be the sense pins in the connector. The "Activate all Resolutions" software has no user interface, settings are to be made through the "Monitors" control panel. This will allow to use settings the connected monitor might not work with. For example you could set the output with a connected Apple 13" to 1024 x 768 pixel at 75 Hz, but it will not produce a readable picture on the screen (and hopefully will not damage the screen, but I recommend not to try so!).

Now, what is the use of this "Activate all resolutions" thing? You need this when you use a Mac-VGA adapter to spoof sense pins (the VGA monitor connector does not support sense pins, nor does it physically fit to the Mac monitor connector). In case you use a PowerBook, you might want to carry only one adapter to connect external monitors to your computer (like a video projector). An adaptor with switches to change sense pins provides no extra reliability, as you need to double check the settings with the monitor specifications, anyway. So you could make a simple adaptor, providing a basic sense pin setting like 640 x 480 at 66.7 Hz, which will not damage most monitors when used in the hands of someone who does not know about Mac monitor specifics. One might also add one switch to change to sync on green (like in some switchable adaptors). With this adapter and the possibility to soft-set the output resolution you will successfully connect any external monitor within the range of the graphics card.

You even can have a use for a Mac-VGA monitor adapter with no external monitor present at all. In case you have a Mac with a monochrome or greyscale display and with a second graphics card capable of colour output, you can plug in just the monitor adaptor, set to simulate a coulour display. Because of the sense pins in the adaptor the Mac "thinks" there is a coulour display hooked to the output. Now open the "Monitors" control panel, set the output mode to "mirroring" (firstly!) and set the non existent colour monitor to be the main screen (with the menu bar). Now you can use applications that require colour output w/o having a colour display. Once I used this for some games on a PowerBook 180 :) It might work well for something like a SE/30 with a colour server card.

 

Udo.Keller

Well-known member
The IIci built-in video uses sync on green which works with few monitors. Griffin and a few others produced sync adapters but they are expensive today. The IIci is best used with a Radius, Supermac or other NuBus video card which will also improve performance. Even a Toby video card would help, and if you lived in the EU I would send one for postage cost.
Wow. Currently, I'm struggling with the same problem. Any chance to get your Toby card to Germany? How much would you ask for it?

 

IIsi

Well-known member
I have been using my IIsi with a Dell 2407WFP-HC 24" LCD panel for years. All I have is a special adaptor for the IIsi to convert it to "regular" Apple DB15 connector then I have a DB15 to VGA connector that has DIP switches on it to configure it for different timings and outputs. Works perfectly. Of course the IIsi RBV chip only gives me 640x480, but, ehhh, it's fun to play Dark Castle or Apeiron on a 24" panel. Whhhheeeeee!

 

Superdos

Well-known member
Heh, LCD Screens. :p

My Quadra 700 is hooked up to a 17" HP LCD from around '03. it does resolutions like 640x480 and 832x624, but at 256 colors only... I'm guessing this is because I only have two 256k VRAM SIMMS in the expansion slot, therefore 1MB + 832x624 = 256c.

this is using a Sony DB15-to-VGA adaptor I picked up out of the trash. it came with a PowerMac 6500 which I tried to liberate, but failed horribly after it blew up. (the hard drive blew up. don't ask.) I also have a smaller converter which I use in the 8•24 that I put in to fool around with from time to time... but I would watch out with this card. since it senses the monitor type it's on, it will either give you a 640x480 display (which can do millions of colors when configged properly) or none at all.

Also, something else. since you have an '030 Mac there, make sure it stays at 7.5.5 or less, or else the 8•24 won't work right in terms of graphics accelleration. this, meaning you can plug into the display onboard and the onboard will be accellerated.

I also recommend putting a heatsink on the am29k CPU onboard that card; they tend to get VERY HOT, and I know this because I've had to install a fan on mine as well.

 

kex

New member
Gamba has an Apple NuBus Video Card matrix that will give you

an idea of what Apple's cards are capable of here:

http://home.earthlink.net/~gamba2/vid-mon-matrix.html

Lowendmac.com has descriptions of most of the 3rd party

NuBus video cards. Mac Driver Museum has drivers for

most or links to them (not all links are good, though.)

IIsi: IIsi sadly will only take one VRAM SIMM. There are adapters to

put a NuBus card in the IIsi - one of mine has an FPU - 68882 -

and It's an Apple part - lemme look - yeah, it's an 820-0303-02,

:Apple NuBus Adapter Card.

Superdos: If you fill all 6 VRAM slots (for 2MB) and run at maximum

colors, does it run slower than with 1MB?

Anyone - is there a way to get the IIci to use more memory for video or

is this a hardware limitation?

 

Charlieman

Well-known member
Anyone - is there a way to get the IIci to use more memory for video or is this a hardware limitation?
I believe that it is a hardware/firmware limitation. However, it wouldn't be a good idea for performance reasons. Using system RAM as VRAM means that system RAM gets a hammering every time that the screen content changes, slowing down any application that shares that RAM bank. Use the IIci built-in video for ad hoc use, but install a NuBus video card if you are going to use it a lot.

 
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