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Help for a nubus Radius PrecisionColor Pro 24X ROM/firmware upgrade

I just bought this card on eBay. (pictured) I was curious if anybody could tell me if it was a 24XK or a Pro 24XK? Also, what is the purpose of the jumper? Thanks so much!
 

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Phipli

Well-known member
I just bought this card on eBay. (pictured) I was curious if anybody could tell me if it was a 24XK or a Pro 24XK? Also, what is the purpose of the jumper? Thanks so much!
I think that is a 24XP to be honest. I'll double check.

Edit - yup, it is a Radius PrecisionColor 24XP. It has 1.5MB of VRAM and does up to 832x624 resolution.
 

Phipli

Well-known member
Also, what is the purpose of the jumper? Thanks so much!
The jumper isn't useful for end users. It isn't documented, but it is connected to a pin on the EEPROM that doesn't do anything. It is probably from development, or an option for things they never did, such as larger ROMs.
 
I think that is a 24XP to be honest. I'll double check.

Edit - yup, it is a Radius PrecisionColor 24XP. It has 1.5MB of VRAM and does up to 832x624 resolution.
Hello Phipli, Thanks for your reply. I am humbled by the span of your knowledge, as you have weighed in on many of my questions. But I am confused by some conflicting info I am seeing. 1. in the thread (linked below) a card identical to the one I have is identified as a Pro 24X. 2. If it is a 24XP, shouldn't it support higher resolutions than 832x624 at 24bit? Gamba's site suggests. Clipping attached... not sure what the solid lines mean.

 

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Phipli

Well-known member
Hello Phipli, Thanks for your reply. I am humbled by the span of your knowledge, as you have weighed in on many of my questions. But I am confused by some conflicting info I am seeing. 1. in the thread (linked below) a card identical to the one I have is identified as a Pro 24X. 2. If it is a 24XP, shouldn't it support higher resolutions than 832x624 at 24bit? Gamba's site suggests. Clipping attached... not sure what the solid lines mean.

I think you're misreading the table? Your card is the Pro version, and there is an error on the non Pro row.


Screenshot_20230919_185912_Firefox.jpg

All of these cards use the same PCB and look absolutely identical, but with a different grade RAMDAC (big chip near the video out port) and amounts of VRAM. The board colours don't imply the card model.

Yours has a 66MHz RAMDAC chip which isn't rated fast enough to do 1024x768 or 1152x870. I haven't looked the VRAM chips up today but only one of the board models was fitted with the 66MHz RAMDAC, and that was the 24XP (and 24XP Pro which is basically identical), which is a 1.5MB board. I've previously done a load of work on these cards. My dad has a 24XP like yours. But blue.
 
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Thanks so much. Kind of disappointing news... I was/am not sophisticated enough to know about RAMDAC chips. I thought it would be a 24 bit card up to 1024 or even 1152. I paid $130... probably too much. I really wanted to drive at least 1024 on my M2494 Multiple Scan 17 Trinitron. I thought it would be more like this Radius card in my other computer... Quadra 700 (pictured)... but that appears now to be a superior card. THANKS!
 

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Phipli

Well-known member
Thanks so much. Kind of disappointing news... I was/am not sophisticated enough to know about RAMDAC chips. I thought it would be a 24 bit card up to 1024 or even 1152. I paid $130... probably too much. I really wanted to drive at least 1024 on my M2494 Multiple Scan 17 Trinitron. I thought it would be more like this Radius card in my other computer... Quadra 700 (pictured)... but that appears now to be a superior card. THANKS!
That card (24X) is a very good card.

They're both as fast as each other and 832x624 is quite a good resolution. The 24XP is still a nice card and given its speed and that it is an accelerated 24bit card, I don't think you really overpaid compared to some other recent listings.

If you get adventurous, you could make a 24AC ROM (about $2) using a ROM programmer (about $40) for your Quadra 700 card and swap it in. It would then be possible to run it using Apple's version of the drivers, and it would also work accelerated alongside a PPC 601 Upgrade card. With the 24x v2.0 ROM it works with the PPC cards, but not accelerated.
 
That card (24X) is a very good card.

They're both as fast as each other and 832x624 is quite a good resolution. The 24XP is still a nice card and given its speed and that it is an accelerated 24bit card, I don't think you really overpaid compared to some other recent listings.

If you get adventurous, you could make a 24AC ROM (about $2) using a ROM programmer (about $40) for your Quadra 700 card and swap it in. It would then be possible to run it using Apple's version of the drivers, and it would also work accelerated alongside a PPC 601 Upgrade card. With the 24x v2.0 ROM it works with the PPC cards, but not accelerated.
Very Interesting! Thanks for your information. :)
 

eharmon

Well-known member
If you get adventurous, you could make a 24AC ROM (about $2) using a ROM programmer (about $40) for your Quadra 700 card and swap it in. It would then be possible to run it using Apple's version of the drivers, and it would also work accelerated alongside a PPC 601 Upgrade card. With the 24x v2.0 ROM it works with the PPC cards, but not accelerated.
Oh interesting, I didn't know the Radius drivers wouldn't accelerate it. If I get my 601 card working again I'll give that a try on my 24X.
 

Phipli

Well-known member
I'm not sure, there might be two versions of the card? An Apple and a Radius 24AC? LEM says there is, but LEM is often wrong, and I have never found a 24AC ROM that isn't from an Apple sold card. Plus the "Apple" cards have a Radius copyright and a Radius PCB.

Basically, that could be true, but it isn't quite what I meant. I meant the 24AC ROM I have a copy of uses an Apple provided driver. Probably still written by Radius.
 

slomacuser

Well-known member
I'm not sure, there might be two versions of the card? An Apple and a Radius 24AC? LEM says there is, but LEM is often wrong, and I have never found a 24AC ROM that isn't from an Apple sold card. Plus the "Apple" cards have a Radius copyright and a Radius PCB.

Basically, that could be true, but it isn't quite what I meant. I meant the 24AC ROM I have a copy of uses an Apple provided driver. Probably still written by Radius.

True. There is no Radius PrecisionColor 24AC listed anywhere on Radius web page or any price list anywhere advertised. It was just a mistaken by Apple 24AC card which was made by Radius, only a back label identified it as Apple Display Card 24AC, see picture, front and back:

ac24 front.jpg AC24.jpg

With the 24x v2.0 ROM it works with the PPC cards, but not accelerated.

Where is this info from? For System 7.5 and Powermac compatibility Radius recommended Dynamic Desktop version 3.3 or later, QuickColor 3.3 or later, and ROM 2.0

 

Phipli

Well-known member
Where is this info from? For System 7.5 and Powermac compatibility Radius recommended Dynamic Desktop version 3.3 or later, QuickColor 3.3 or later, and ROM 2.0
Personal testing with about 30 tests of different cards, bit depths processors and OS versions.

ROM version 2.0 works with PPC, in that it doesn't crash, but it runs at the same speed as the 24AC does /without/ drivers. This means it is unaccelerated.
 

Phipli

Well-known member
True. There is no Radius PrecisionColor 24AC listed anywhere on Radius web page or any price list anywhere advertised. It was just a mistaken by Apple 24AC card which was made by Radius, only a back label identified it as Apple Display Card 24AC, see picture, front and back:

View attachment 62389 View attachment 62390



Where is this info from? For System 7.5 and Powermac compatibility Radius recommended Dynamic Desktop version 3.3 or later, QuickColor 3.3 or later, and ROM 2.0

I was using version 2.62 of the Control Panel it seems. I'll try a newer version and see if acceleration works with V2.0 ROMs and PPC.
 

eharmon

Well-known member
I was using version 2.62 of the Control Panel it seems. I'll try a newer version and see if acceleration works with V2.0 ROMs and PPC.
I also wonder if there's any difference in performance with the 24AC v. 24X ROM on PPC assuming acceleration works. That is, did the acceleration drivers diverge between what shipped in the OS versus Radius?
 

Phipli

Well-known member
I also wonder if there's any difference in performance with the 24AC v. 24X ROM on PPC assuming acceleration works. That is, did the acceleration drivers diverge between what shipped in the OS versus Radius?
They were identical under 68k, so I suspect not.

I'm confusing myself because I just booted my IIci with my 24XK, forgetting that it is flashed with the 24AC ROM :ROFLMAO:

QuickColor didn't recognise it because it is an "Apple" card. Apparently.

I have my jumper mod on the card so I'll switch it back over when I power down next.
 

Phipli

Well-known member
@slomacuser

You're right :) it is accelerated with 3.3. see results for all of my tests in my IIci below.

I also wonder if there's any difference in performance with the 24AC v. 24X ROM on PPC assuming acceleration works. That is, did the acceleration drivers diverge between what shipped in the OS versus Radius?
They're basically the same (OS version does make a difference, with OS8.5 being the fastest - don't ask why my IIci has 8.5 installed, I got carried away one day).

20230922_191526.jpg
 
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