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Emulation: Infinite Mac

joevt

Well-known member
https://infinitemac.org/run?disk=Mac+OS+8.1+Disk+Tools+(PPC)&machine=Power+Macintosh+7500 renders the checkboard for a brief period and then the cursor appears (and responds to input), but everything outside of it is black. The (upstream) native build doesn't show the cursor at all.
The upstream native build has two display windows. You have to move the second one out of the way to see the checkerboard and cursor in the first display window. You can remove the second display window by removing , "Sixty6Video" from machinetnt.cpp. Later commits from my fork should fix that.

I tried the upstream at 475f894582d1cb7c38b62df8dea85e3ef6daf37b (the upstream base of the zmihaip fork).
Code:
argv[0] = '/Volumes/Work/Programming/dingusppc/joevt-dingusppc/build-xcode/bin/Debug/dingusppc'
argv[1] = '-d'
argv[2] = '--has_sixty6=0'
argv[3] = '--serial_backend=socket'
argv[4] = '-b'
argv[5] = '7500.rom'
argv[6] = '--machine'
argv[7] = 'pm7500'
argv[8] = '--rambank1_size=128'
argv[9] = '--rambank2_size=128'
argv[10] = '--rambank3_size=128'
argv[11] = '--rambank4_size=128'
argv[12] = '--rambank5_size=128'
argv[13] = '--rambank6_size=128'
argv[14] = '--rambank7_size=128'
argv[15] = '--rambank8_size=128'
argv[16] = '--rambank9_size=128'
argv[17] = '--rambank10_size=128'
argv[18] = '--rambank11_size=128'
argv[19] = '--rambank12_size=128'
argv[20] = '--fdd_img'
argv[21] = '/Volumes/FreeSpace/Mac OS 8.1 converted/Disk Tools PPC.dc42'
argv[22] = '--mon_id'
argv[23] = 'Multiscan17in'

It boots up to where the menu bar appears when an abort happens due to audio out issue at system beep. Sometimes the system beep doesn't cause an abort and you can interact with the Finder. Later commits from my fork might fix that so it doesn't abort.

The latest upstream adds SCSI support. Since it supports read and write, you won't get the system beep issue that the floppy has. You usually have to hold the Shift key to disable extensions to be able to interact with the Finder unless you disable some extensions (move them out of the System folder) or boot a CD that doesn't have problematic extensions (such as the Open Darwin 1.0 installer CD which boots MacOS 9.0.4).

Actually, the system beep issue with the floppy goes away if you have --fdd_wr_prot=1 so that the system knows not to attempt writing to the floppy.
 

Phipli

Well-known member
Since infinite mac has PowerSurge family macs running, is there a chance it will run BeOS?
 

Snial

Well-known member
The upstream native build has two display windows. You have to move the second one out of the way to see the checkerboard and cursor in the first display window. You can remove the second display window by removing <snip... haha, removed!>
It'd be cool to have dual windows on an Infinite Mac emulator!
It boots up to where the menu bar appears when an abort happens due to audio out issue at system beep. Sometimes the system beep doesn't cause an abort and you can interact with the Finder. Later commits from my fork might fix that so it doesn't abort.

The latest upstream adds SCSI support. Since it supports read and write, you won't get the system beep issue that the floppy has. You usually have to hold the Shift key to disable extensions to be able to interact with the Finder unless you disable some extensions (move them out of the System folder) or boot a CD that doesn't have problematic extensions (such as the Open Darwin 1.0 installer CD which boots MacOS 9.0.4).
Brilliant!
Actually, the system beep issue with the floppy goes away if you have --fdd_wr_prot=1 so that the system knows not to attempt writing to the floppy.
Oh, does that mean a real PM6100 can work without a floppy drive too?

Since infinite mac has PowerSurge family macs running, is there a chance it will run BeOS?
I've been wondering that. There certainly seems to be an understandable interest in NeXTStep so I guess BeOS is on the agenda somewhere!
 

Phipli

Well-known member
Oh, does that mean a real PM6100 can work without a floppy drive too?
I think macs boot without a floppy drive? I mean, I haven't tried with every model, and have seen it cause a longish timeout, but I don't thing it is mandated.

But I think they mean the floppy drive is there, just set to read only.
 

joevt

Well-known member
Since infinite mac has PowerSurge family macs running, is there a chance it will run BeOS?
The goal is to be able to run all the OSs. For BeOS, I think we need to add multitrack CD support? Unless there's an ISO with single track that can be booted or an HD image? I think multitrack CD support should be easy to add. Then we can try booting it to see how it works with the emulation as it is so far (which means no sound input, no floppy write, no internal SCSI, (just external SCSI), no ethernet, etc.).
 

Phipli

Well-known member
The goal is to be able to run all the OSs. For BeOS, I think we need to add multitrack CD support? Unless there's an ISO with single track that can be booted or an HD image? I think multitrack CD support should be easy to add. Then we can try booting it to see how it works with the emulation as it is so far (which means no sound input, no floppy write, no internal SCSI, (just external SCSI), no ethernet, etc.).
Shouldn't need multitrack support with a premade image?

A lot of software is on multitrack disks, as is the installer so it would be good to have. But to actually test compatibility it might be possible with an image like download 1 here :


You need another image with Mac OS and the bootloader to initiate BeOS. I can spin something up for that if needed. All that's needed is a minimum Mac OS install with the extension.
 

Phipli

Well-known member
First try, with a 7.5.3 Minimum Install for Any Computer. The BeOS "_OS_Chooser" bootloader extension doesn't even show its face during boot. When I run the BeOS_Launcher application, I get an error saying it is already running. I get this error whether I remove "_OS_Chooser" from the System Folder or not. I'm going to try making another boot image to try a configuration more like my actual working 9600.

1712408424045.png

1712408522188.png
 

Snial

Well-known member
First try, with a 7.5.3 Minimum Install for Any Computer. The BeOS "_OS_Chooser" bootloader extension doesn't even show its face during boot. When I run the BeOS_Launcher application, I get an error saying it is already running. I get this error whether I remove "_OS_Chooser" from the System Folder or not. I'm going to try making another boot image to try a configuration more like my actual working 9600.

View attachment 72113

View attachment 72114
Wow! This is all very interesting! Is this the PM9600 emulator?
 

Phipli

Well-known member
Wow! This is all very interesting! Is this the PM9600 emulator?
This was my quick test to see if BeOS boots on the PM9500 in InfiniteMac. The reference to the PM9600 is my real physical BeOS machine.
I'm going to try making another boot image to try a configuration more like my actual working 9600.
I tried with Mac OS 7.6.1 and got the exact same behaviour. The error isn't clear enough for me to pick up any "why" sadly.
 

Phipli

Well-known member
If anyone wants to play along at home.

Attached is a 7.6.1 minimum install with the support utilities from BeOS version 4.5 and 5.0.3. Note for some reason I seem to be using versions that say 4.5 on my actual computer, even though it boots 5.0.3. I can't remember why as it is years since I set it up.

Actual BeOS pre-installed image is available here :

Make sure you don't go crazy with the RAM - BeOS doesn't boot if you have too much. 64 is plenty (it works with more, but there is a limit I can't remember).

Out of the list of machines on infinitemac, I think the 9500 is probably the best machine to go for. Does anyone know what video card is being emulated in the 9500? Any card that has an appropriate Mac driver in ROM should work slowly, but only a small number of cards supports acceleration. Both cards that came with the 9500 (ATi Mach64 based thing and the ixMicro TT) are "fully" supported.
 

Attachments

  • MacOSForBe761.zip
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Snial

Well-known member
This was my quick test to see if BeOS boots on the PM9500 in InfiniteMac. The reference to the PM9600 is my real physical BeOS machine.
Sorry, I meant the PM9500.
I tried with Mac OS 7.6.1 and got the exact same behaviour. The error isn't clear enough for me to pick up any "why" sadly.
There's no MMU on Infinite Mac's PM9500 emulator (it's SheepShaver-based I think). Could either of these be a possible reason?
 

lolo799

Active member
Sorry, I meant the PM9500.

There's no MMU on Infinite Mac's PM9500 emulator (it's SheepShaver-based I think). Could either of these be a possible reason?
BeOS requires a MMU to run so it won't work in SheepShaver.

And that specific error message Phipli gets is what happens when you try loading BeOS inside SheepShaver on BeOS.

BeOS Launcher/OS Chooser didn't get upgraded after 4.5.
 

Phipli

Well-known member
I saw someone mention emulating the 7500 on infinitemac but I can't see it in the menu. Is it there somewhere, and does it have an MMU?

Edit - found it. Not alphabetical
 

Phipli

Well-known member
The 7500 emulator on InfiniteMac won't boot properly, it does a slow screen clear to black and then the pointer cursor appears within a grey 16x16 block against that black background. Then Mac OS (I've tried 7.5.3) doesn't boot (but the mouse moves).
Probably 7500 just needs some commits from the joevt fork. That machine type has an 8500 variant (includes sixty6 video out; planb video in may be added later) and a 9500 variant (includes bandit2).
This is how far I got too. Does the same with 7.5.3 and with 7.6.1.

In the process of re-reading the thread in case there were any updates.
 

Phipli

Well-known member
I tried to compile dingusppc from @joevt 's github but hit the following error. Just going to check if a CMakeLists.txt file exists in the repository it was forked from.

1712422153508.png

Edit - I think I know what the issue was. I lazily just downloaded the zip, and it didn't pull down linked external repositories. I'll sort that now.
 

Snial

Well-known member
This is how far I got too. Does the same with 7.5.3 and with 7.6.1.

In the process of re-reading the thread in case there were any updates.
I'm glad this topic is becoming fairly fruitful! When you re-read the thread you should see that sometimes I keep mentioning Dingus PPC 603(e) emulation. Once that works OK, it could be a starting point for an actual BeBox emulator on Infinite Mac, because, well, @mihai 's doing an amazing job, but if we let him rest on his laurels it might go to his head ;-) !

[But what I mean here is that, although I'm happy to check out the builds when I get a chance, I should probably get involved with helping with the Dingus PPC emulator and/or Infinite Mac].
 

Phipli

Well-known member
Right, I tried again and got further, but make failed when it tried to build the "appleramdac.cpp" file.

Lots of "incomplete type" errors, not sure if that is what killed it.

This is the last few lines :
1712423797908.png

I'm running linux Pop!_OS 22.04 LTS (6.6.6-76060606-generic), on an Intel 4810MQ based laptop.
 
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