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Decked out Apple IIgs vs. Decked out PLUS

FireBlade93RR

Active member
the second mod was to remove the RF modulator and hooked it bypassing the tuner on the TV for better picture, and i could then also simulate different monitor colors, amber (yellow), green, black on white and reverse.

i also ended up getting a 16K expansion.

that's the one i learned my programming skills, when i got bored of the limitations, that's when i switched to a IIe clone (could not afford a real one)

 

Gorgonops

Moderator
Staff member
Commodore Plus/4.
It's strange how common they seem to be to this day. There's almost always at least one on the local Craigslist. (Either stand alone, or in the pile when someone's selling off their Commodore collection.) Commodore must have made a lot of the things, impressive given what a spectacular flop they were.

 

Gorgonops

Moderator
Staff member
I think it had dos 3.3.
Are you sure it wasn't a Tandy 1000 EX:

320px-Sabu_with_his_Tandy_1000_Computer.jpg.ebbb138b63d0b8f885616902ae205251.jpg


Or 1000 HX?:

320px-Tandy1000HX.jpg.8564e747fbc4327301baefa21c73cf87.jpg


The CoCo didn't run "DOS". (Well, at least not MS-DOS.) It was a Motorola 6809-based 8-bit system that normally ran its built-in Microsoft BASIC-based environment. (There were several alternative OSes available for it, including the more-than-vaguely UNIX-ish OS-9 from Microware Systems.) The 1000EX/HX were sorta-mostly-PC compatible systems packaged in the odd home computer-shaped console case and had a few unique features, like a stripped down version of DOS in ROM they could boot from instead of a floppy.

I would love to find a broken EX/HX and cram a Mini-ITX-style motherboard into one.

 

uniserver

Well-known member
I remember it had a floppy drive, and would boot up to a command prompt, and I think if you typed in ver it said ms dos 3.0 or 3.3.

The guy who i got the thing from was very computer savvy i remember.

 

Gorgonops

Moderator
Staff member
Well, this is what a Color Computer 2 looks like when it boots up:

Coco2boot.png.d6ceb59b6cb9e3f2c50995e0918fd1d0.png


And "VER" returns:

?SN ERROR

(Happen to have MESS with a CoCo ROM handy.) So, yeah, almost certainly a 1000EX/HX. Or a *really* impressive casemod. (A CoCo 2 would be hard to fit a Mini-ITX motherboard into, let alone the guts of any 80's PC clone.)

 

Gorgonops

Moderator
Staff member
Was the computer you remember capable of displaying lowercase letters? A Coco can't.

(And yes, the command for getting a directory in disk color basic happens to be "DIR", but the drive names are numbers, not letters like ms-dos, and most other commands are different. My first two computers were members of the Tandy CoCo family, so I'm pretty darn sure the machine you remember wasn't one.)

 
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uniserver

Well-known member
Oh then DIR?

Yes, I do not remember case being an option.

i remember the upper part of the case was not screwed, it was just sitting there.

Sometimes the color would get strange, he had some kind of mod to the video circuit, use some temporary spring loaded test clip things, but in a permanent way. You had to give it a little wiggle on occasion.

I remember asking the kid, why his dad did this? he said, I'm sure it was some kind of imporvment.

 
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uniserver

Well-known member
lol now that you are getting all hissy about it :)

The floppy drive must of had DOS, (Disk Operating System) ?? yes?

ok its all coming back to me now!!!

i got it!


It ran windows 95, and pretty darn good i might add!!

 

Gorgonops

Moderator
Staff member
*snicker* Hey, whatever. If you treasure the memory of the time you met a magical kid from the future who's dad somehow hacked a Tandy CoCo to run an OS for a completely different in almost every possible way computer who am I to take that from you? Maybe he crammed a flux capacitor in there while he was at it.

 

uniserver

Well-known member
Ya know what? In all seriousness...

Was there version 3 or 3.3 of basic? maybe? i took, that VER + under lic from Microsoft and drew my own conclusion?

I hear those flux capacitors are pretty fantastic. but in order for it to work properly the computer has to travel at 88mph.

yeah i did treasure that memory but my heart will go on.

 

Gorgonops

Moderator
Staff member
A coco usually *wasn't* booted from a "dos" disk. The ROM-resident basic (the ROM was in the disk controller pak, a plastic box about the size of an 8-track tape that plugged into the cartridge slot on the side, where the black door is) contained a rudimentary set of disk management commands. BASIC versions varied from 1.0 to 1.2.

Maybe you're confusing two different sets of memories in your head. (The kid had a hacked with CoCo and you just don't really remember anything much about how it worked specifically. Honestly. .. the CoCo would not have made much of an impression on a kid with a c64. The 6809 in them is one of the best 8-bit CPUs of the era and it had a good BASIC, but the graphics and other features were frankly crummy compared to most of the competition. They're the sort of thing engineers and Ham Radio nuts appreciated.)

 

uniserver

Well-known member
ah yeah you are correct.

Here is what i remember about it though.

The kid would call it Trash 80 and it didn't make sense to me.

Because that COCO2 I had seemed like a good working, solid machine.

I remember, I was able to type in some basic programs from a magazine.

Run them, and then save em onto floppy. It was straight forward…

I do know that i liked it more then the c64.

but the gap between the C64 and the 286 was narrow, so my coco2 experience was short.

but the memory was fond!

The next thing I remember of computer importance was discovering SMARTDRV.EXE Woha!

I was in heaven! And that's the way it is. :-D


Or was it that it was pleasing to use, for these guys because it was familiar due to it being a derivative of the 6800

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_6800

And when these guys where in college getting their fancy degrees, They were around systems using the 6800 or the PDP-11 etc. ?

 

Gorgonops

Moderator
Staff member
Because that COCO2 I had seemed like a good working, solid machine.
I remember, I was able to type in some basic programs from a magazine.

Run them, and then save em onto floppy. It was straight forward…

I do know that i liked it more then the c64.
The major attraction of the CoCo compared to a C64, other than some esoterica related to the CPU, was that for programming/problem solving it was a much more "straighforward" machine. The Achilles heel of the C64 was that despite having nifty graphics and sound hardware the BASIC interpreter was *exactly the same version* as that used in a 1978 Commodore PET and thereby supported *none* of it. (If you wanted to make pretty pictures and noises from BASIC you had to learn how to POKE bits straight into the video memory and the VIC-II and SID chips.) The CoCo's graphics and sound hardware were much less impressive but they were easy to use, with BASIC commands to directly plot points, draw lines and shapes, etc.

sort of thing engineers and Ham Radio nuts appreciated.
Sorry I hate to sound like my 2 year old, but. Why?

I'm sure when you say it, there is a real concrete, well rounded meaning from your comment.

From what i know, Ham's and Engineers like to Tinker/Customize, Any connection?
The TRS-80 line used pretty vanilla hardware and in general the machines were not great choices for people that wanted a computer mostly to play video games. But the machines were well documented, widely available through a channel that "geeks" used to frequent (Radio Shack in the 70's-early 80's was a much different place than the zombie it is today), and the "vanilla-ishness" of their hardware made them easy for a person with the right skills to hack/customize/expand in nonstandard ways. The Apple II these days gets all the kudos for being "open" (history's written by the winners, after all) but there are parts of it that *are* proprietary (Tandys used bog-standard Shugart-interface disk drives for instance, not hacked mechanisms like Apple) and Apple IIs were *much* more expensive than the TRS-80s generally were. It was natural that the line attracted "cheapskate techy"-types.

(When the cheap Commodores like the VIC-20 and C64 came along they sort of shared the "cheap hackable niche" with the low-end Tandys, but I think it's fair to say there were subtle differences in the sort of person they appealed to. With their fancier-but-harder-to-access graphics the Commodores attracted "computer hackers" while the Tandy camp appealed to people who were out to solve technical problems that happen to involve computer hacking. If that makes any sense.)

6809 was rather quickly an evolutionary dead-end
Or was it that it was pleasing to use, for these guys because it was familiar due to it being a derivative of the 6800

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_6800

And when these guys where in college getting their fancy degrees, They were around systems using the 6800 or the PDP-11 etc. ?
The deal with the 6809 was it was essentially the only 8 bit CPU that *really* supported modular, relocatable code without resorting to ugly hacks, and was considered to have an "elegant" instruction set. (Although it shared DNA with the 6800 it was *not* binary compatible with it and was basically better in every possible way; by comparison the competing Z-80 was a binary-compatible upgrade to the Intel 8080 with its extra registers and features "tacked on", which made its instruction set rather haphazard.) It offered *far* superior code density than the 6502 (the 6502 also had some onerous limitations relating to things like the size of the stack), and it had a multiply instruction, practically unknown amongst 8-bit CPUs. In short, there were things about it that appealed to computer science types.

Practically speaking the 6809 didn't give the CoCo any earth-shattering abilities beyond the reach of other home computers (as noted, the tradeoff in the CoCo's case for the nicer CPU was some pretty drab graphics hardware which at best could be charitably described as being about as good as the original Apple II's) but, you know, in the "mine is better than yours" pissing contests that inevitably broke out between the various home computer partisans it's pretty much *the* thing it had going for it.

Obscure trivia point, which you probably saw when you read the article, was that the Mac was originally slated to be based on the 6809. The 6809 is in fact arguably almost as "powerful" as the 68000 by some measures but it is ultimately hamstrung by its 64k native address space. Other obscure point was that, again, because of the 6809's ability to support modular code there *were* a number of "supermicros" (that SWTPC system you picked up in Florida is one) which used it to ran various "Unix-like" operating systems like UniFlex and OS-9. (There were multitasking OSes for the Z-80 and other CPUs as well, like MP/M, but they're in a number of ways less sophisticated.) The CoCo could actually run some stripped-down versions of these OSes, although that was really a niche thing in the CoCo community (I'd be *really* surprised if that kid or his dad was doing it), at least until the CoCo3 came along with the paged memory and 80 column screen hardware sufficient to make it worthwhile... but by that time the writing was clearly on the wall for the CoCo anyway.

 

MinerAl

Well-known member
At one point Radio Shack had a "trade in any computer for $200 off a CoCo(2? 3?)" deal going. This was at the same time you could buy a TS-1000 in a bubble pack at the drug store for $50. Radio Shack was inundated with little black wedges. The Tandy offices in Dallas supposedly used them for door stops.

 

mcdermd

Well-known member
Funny you say that as I mostly remember the Timex Sinclair from a display on an end cap at the local drug store. It was next to the case full of Atari 2600 cartridges.

 

Gorgonops

Moderator
Staff member
It's kind of sad, but in a way you could consider those $60 cheap-*ss Android tablets they sell at drugstores these days the spiritual successor of the TS-1000. I guess it says something about just how far technology has come that for about the same price you get some number of GB of flash storage, a full-color screen, a CPU clocked *at minimum* around 200 times faster, wireless networking... but the end result still sucks compared to what you'd get if you just sucked it up and ponied up twice the price for the "real thing".

 
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